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Why we are fat.

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euripides

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Why we are fat.
« on: March 12, 2013, 02:41:26 PM »

Thought it might be worth pulling this out to it's own thread.

Which all raises the question -- why is weight control so hard for me? If it genuinely was simply a case of "eat one fewer oreo a day", that would be easy.

I would say that weight control is hard for you because you have been fed a lot of misinformation about it. If you don't know how a car works, it will be hard to fix it. It will be even harder to fix a car if you have been told the wrong thing about how it works.

Well I certainly hope that's true. If all I need is the right information, wonderful. But it's going to have to be a fundamentally different *kind* of information than all the stuff that's out there. The reason for that is that all the other stuff is hitting the wrong problem. Most of the existing information is trying to tackle the problem that obese people eat too much[1]. That's clearly a problem, but it's a symptom, not the underlying primary cause.

The underlying primary (or at least deeper) cause of my obesity is not that I eat too much, but that I *want* to eat too much. In other words, the central issue in the treatment of obesity is that very same central issue in the treatment of many other "ailments" (e.g. using a CPAP for sleep apnea, taking blood pressure meds, or even taking nasty tasting medicine) -- compliance. However in most other ailments, the response to poor compliance is to *fix the treatment*. In the case of obesity the general response is to continually re-state the same failing treatment while adding for good measure something of the form, "Well, it's your own lazy fault that you're a fattie. Just stop eating so much and go to the gym."[2][3]

The reason I find SLD sufficiently intriguing to try it out is that in it, of only a very few (although there are others[4]), you Seth appear to be attacking that underlying primary cause. If that's "modify set point by popping some flax oil capsules", cool with me. 's'why I'm here! But, in the spirit of self experimentation, we'll see :-)

Quote from: Seth
Maybe you are gaining weight more quickly in the US than in the UK because in the US you eat more ditto food, such as junk food or chain restaurant food or microwave food.

But, to my earlier point, why? *Why* do I eat more of that food? There's more of all kinds of food here so why do I choose the "ditto" food[5]? And why don't my skinny friends choose it?



[1] If you like, you could modulate that "too much" by adding "of the wrong things" but it doesn't change the fundamental point I make in the next paragraph.
[2] a la http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXTq2_3LfXM. Don't get me wrong, Ricky is a hoot, and I laugh at this as much as my skinny friend. And I don't care whether obesity is classed as a disease or not (I certainly don't think it is outside of my control in the way having many cancers may be). But the underlying point he is riffing on is surprisingly brain-dead for someone who is so hard on things like religion, irrational and devoid of evidence as he seems to think it is. The idea that losing weight is "merely" about eating less and exercising more is as sensible as the idea that a heroin addict can cure their problem by "merely" stopping sticking a needle in their arm. (And no, I'm not claiming obesity is an addiction, although it does seem to be a pretty close fit for the DSM-IV's definitions of substance dependence or abuse.) The operative word here is of course "merely".
[3] Of course it *is* my own lazy "fault" that I'm fat. I should modify my eating, and it would almost certainly do me some good to go to the gym. But *why* don't I? And why do others manage? Akrasia and all that stuff.
[4] You may want to try to dig up "The Manorama Formula" by M. Legha. It was published in the UK back in 1987 and as far as I can see it's out of print. I believe she is a neurologist or psychiatrist. Here's a link to a Google Book referring to her -- http://tinyurl.com/asvfet8 -- it seems to focus on brown cell theories but IIRC Legha wasn't pushing that specifically.
[5] Although now you bring it up, I don't actually tend to that kind of food. My wife is an excellent cook, who loves to experiment. I have eaten only two fast-food burger meals in the least 12 months, and don't go to that many restaurants. If I had to compare the UK with the US in this respect, I reckon I may have to give the edge on "ditto" food consumption to the UK, where it was still low, but maybe higher than over here.

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Target - Overall : 160lbs

woodysworld

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Re: Why we are fat.
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2013, 12:29:56 PM »

"But, to my earlier point, why? *Why* do I eat more of that food? There's more of all kinds of food here so why do I choose the "ditto" food[5]? And why don't my skinny friends choose it? "


If you're referring to why do you eat ditto food, and that food being junk food like cookies, chips, or even
copious amounts of peanut butter sandwiches on white bread, it's because A.) those foods are tasty, B.) those
foods have zero nutritional value, and C.) those foods are genetically engineered to MAKE you overeat.

They have ZERO satiation point, so you keep eating and eating and eating until you get bored of them and stop.

Your body will continue to CRAVE these shitty foods because it is looking for vitamins and minerals to
feed its cells, so when you eat the junk food, your body says "keep eating until you get the vitamins and minerals
you need!". Which  never happens, and you over eat.

For example, I can eat an ENTIRE bag of Chips Ahoy chocolate chip cookies and A.) not blink and eye, B.) NEVER
feel full and C.) never feel sick of them.

I can eat the entire bag and then an hour later, "Oh hey, some Chips Ahoy sound good right now!" And they will
CONTINUE to "sound good" because they are a "ditto food".

They taste the same way every single time I eat them: DELICIOUS.

Now, I LURVE hard boiled eggs, but could I eat a crapton of them like the chips ahoy? Oh HELLS NO.

I could do oil shots until the COWS COME HOME while eating junk food (ditto food) and never lose an
ounce, because ditto food calllllls to a person.

But SLD, plus food with nutrition? Meat and veggies? Those two don't call to me, only when I'm hungry...
so the oil shots reduce my FOOD intake when I *DO* eat them.

Shite, I could eat meat and veggies, be perfectly satiated, then think of Chips Ahoy and be "hungry" for the
cookies.

You gotta pick the right foods for SLD to work, not a buncha crap.

Anyway, don't know if that helps at all.

And I'm not trying to be bitchy or officious, I'm just trying to explain how *I* understand the
whole thing.

Julie
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euripides

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Re: Why we are fat.
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2013, 06:20:01 PM »

Hey Julie, thanks for the comments.

They have ZERO satiation point, so you keep eating and eating and eating until you get bored of them and stop.
...
For example, I can eat an ENTIRE bag of Chips Ahoy chocolate chip cookies and A.) not blink and eye, B.) NEVER
feel full and C.) never feel sick of them.

Interesting. We're all different I guess in our fight with food. I haven't experienced the above. I love certain foods that are high in some wrong things -- e.g. cheesecake, or a UK[1] chicken korma, rice, and peshwari naan, and so on. But I get satiated after a certain amount. I know nothing that I could eat forever. Well, maybe chocolate Hobnobs, but I've a feeling they put crack cocaine in those.

You gotta pick the right foods for SLD to work, not a buncha crap.

Depending on what you mean by "gotta",  that's not my own experience after the first week. I'm exerting *zero* mental, psychic, emotional energy on resisting any kind of food. I'm just letting the oil do its stuff, to see what it can come up with. I'm doing that on purpose, as part of the whole self experimentation thing. I just want to see what happens. If I later find that SLD helps me, but I still need some will power but less than "unassisted". Fine. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not taking oil and then stuffing my face with chocolate. I'm eating exactly whatever I want, exactly whenever I want (obeying only the 1 hour rule), and in exactly what quantity I want, but that all happens to be pretty sensible food, in quantities that so far are seeing me lose now 6lbs in just under a week.

For example, I just prepared a pretty normal sized plate of good pasta, with sauteed salmon, pine nuts, and a light lemon-based glaze. My (slim and health conscious marathon-running) wife made it from scratch and it tasted fabulous. I stopped after eating about *a quarter* of the food. That is bordering on miraculous for me.

I'm eating what I want, but "what I want" has changed. I'm not remotely declaring victory yet. Maybe it's placebic -- I want it to work -- and it will stop in a week[2]. Maybe the bottoming out of the SLD effect (http://boards.sethroberts.net/index.php?topic=8364.msg106598#msg106598) will happen in two weeks. But so far, so good.


[1] One of the (few) things I've found much of the US can't compete with the UK in is Indian food!
[2] Otherwise who cares! I'll take a placebo any day if it allows me to attain and sustain significant weight loss :)
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Target - Overall : 160lbs

woodysworld

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Re: Why we are fat.
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2013, 01:52:08 PM »

Hey awesome!

Sounds like you're right on target then and doing fantastically!

Keep on keeping on, and good luck with your experiment.


Julie
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