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Just eat normally?

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Author Topic: Just eat normally?  (Read 7304 times)

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Seth Roberts

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Re: Just eat normally?
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2013, 08:04:30 AM »

...Suppose [SLD] allows you to lose 80 pounds and you keep doing it. You will spend the rest of your life at a considerably lower weight (80 pounds lower?) than you would have without SLD. Yes, eventually you will go back to gaining 2 lb/year but from a much lower starting point. There are likely to be huge benefits of being 80 lbs lower for the rest of your life so I am puzzled that you talk about "crucial points"...

You are contradicting yourself. You say that the person will spend the rest of their life 80lbs lower, but you also say they will eventually go back to gaining 2lb/year. Those statements are inconsistent. Staying 80lbs lower for the rest of their life is a 0lb/yr gain. A 2lb/yr gain is, well, a 2lb/yr gain.

By "lower" I meant "lower than they would be without SLD".

If you keep that in mind, you'll see my statements aren't inconsistent. You can stay 80 lb lower on SLD while still gaining 2 lb/year because without SLD you will be gaining 2 lb/year. Here's an example.

Without SLD: 2013: Weighs 300 lbs. 2023: Weighs 320 lbs. (Gains 2 lb/year.)
With SLD starting in 2013. Start of 2013: 300 lbs. End of 2013: 220 lbs. 2023: 238 lbs. (Gains 2 lb/year.)


From end of 2013 to 2023 this person if he does SLD will weigh about 80 lb less than without SLD. For example, in 2018, 230 (with SLD) versus 310 (without SLD). 310-230 = 80.
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euripides

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Re: Just eat normally?
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2013, 09:24:42 AM »

... my statements aren't inconsistent. ...

Ahhhh! Chaching! When you said "80 pounds lower", you meant not:

"80 pounds lower than your initial starting point"

but rather:

"80 pounds lower than you would have been had you never gone on SLD in the first place and so had continued to gain 2lbs a year from your initial starting point"

Yes?

Boing. Penny. Drops. :-) And just so I'm completely clear, was there a slight mismatch in your example? You had:

Quote from: Seth
...
With SLD starting in 2013. Start of 2013: 300 lbs. End of 2013: 220 lbs. 2023: 238 lbs. (Gains 2 lb/year.)

But that last number should be 248lbs, yes? Your underlying point is still valid, I just want to make sure I'm following you.
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Start (March 7 2013): 292.8lbs
Target - Phase 1: 275lbs
Target - Overall : 160lbs

Seth Roberts

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Re: Just eat normally?
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2013, 09:43:33 AM »

You basically have it correct.

However, my 238 is correct. 248 is wrong. If you weigh 220 at the end of 2013 and gain 2 lb/year for 9 years (end of 2013 to 2023 -- let's say the beginning of 2023) you will weigh 220 + 18 = 238.
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euripides

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Re: Just eat normally?
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2013, 05:58:38 PM »

However, my 238 is correct. 248 is wrong. If you weigh 220 at the end of 2013 and gain 2 lb/year for 9 years (end of 2013 to 2023 -- let's say the beginning of 2023) you will weigh 220 + 18 = 238.

Ah, OK. Got it.  Good good. But, we're not done just yet.

So what's the mechanism behind the change in direction -- weight loss turning to weight gain? It appears that SLD lowers[1] the set point so the weight falls to 220 but then at some point -- i.e. at the point where the dieter's weight has dropped to correspond to that set point? -- the set point then goes back up, even though the dieter is still consuming the same amount of LOFC. Is that mechanism understood yet?

Also, you've said earlier that if the dieter *stops* using LOFC when their weight loss bottoms out, they will actually gain weight *faster* than they were originally. Is that because all else being equal, a pre-SLD dieter will tend to have a lower set point than a post-SLD dieter who stops taking the LOFC? That sounds like the consumption of LOFC has not only stopped being as effective as it was, but in fact it has modified something in the person's neurophysiology. Yes, no?

In fact, a more general question. Exactly what is set point, in terms of the level of weight loss induced? I mean, does a person's set point correspond to an absolute weight? As in:

"You're lucky! My set point is 250lbs. I wish I had your 120lbs set point."

Or is it in some way relative to *today's* weight? As in:

"Sigh, my set point is effectively 5lbs (or 7%) above whatever I weigh now :-("

Or what? (My own experience suggests the latter; or at least the former with a set point of something well north of 300lbs).


[1] In one go, or gradually, I'm not sure, but I don't think it matters for this topic.
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Start (March 7 2013): 292.8lbs
Target - Phase 1: 275lbs
Target - Overall : 160lbs

Seth Roberts

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Re: Just eat normally?
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2013, 06:36:48 PM »

sorry, but I'm going to have to bow out of this conversation. I have other things I need to do.
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euripides

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Re: Just eat normally?
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2013, 06:41:51 PM »

sorry, but I'm going to have to bow out of this conversation. I have other things I need to do.
Thanks for the info thus far.
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Start (March 7 2013): 292.8lbs
Target - Phase 1: 275lbs
Target - Overall : 160lbs

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