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Still Waiting For Results

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karlskamera

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Still Waiting For Results
« on: May 15, 2011, 10:00:09 AM »

(But perhaps I'm doing something wrong.)

I'm male.  51 Years old.  Starting about 10 months ago, I lost around 20-25 pounds of fat mostly due to a sensible diet, (loosely based on a low-carb diet), and vigorous exercise at the gym.  I dropped from 29% body fat down to around 17%.  (The reason I hedge on the weight loss is that at the same time I lost the fat I've also boosted my ability to do pull-ups and I'm increased my max bench and my max squat weights, so likely I've added muscle.)  My weight stands now, as it has for the past several months, at about 185 lbs.  I don't much care about my weight, per se, I'm just interested in getting my body fat down to something closer to 10 or 12%.  Perhaps this is unrealistic, or, the SLD may not be the best way to do this.  I latched onto SLD because it seemed easy and painless.

I started with 3 Tbs of Flaxseed oil with my nose clipped.  I did that for a week or so, and detected no results, so after reading some in this forum, I thought maybe the thing to do is to up the dosage, so I've moved to a quarter cup of flaxseed oil.  I've been at this for several weeks, and while I've not noticed any appetite suppression, I have noticed that the flaxseed oil makes my skin much happier.  (And, if I skip taking it, as I have on some weekends, I can tell the difference.)  I find the oil very unpleasant to take... it is flavorless, but the "mouth feel" is kind of revolting.  The past few days I've taken it with a tsp, or so, of sugar and that makes it far more pleasant.  I do, sometimes, after a vigorous workout, have a pre-mixed "MusleMilk" brand shake, and I drink that with my nose clipped, also, because I don't much care about the flavor of that; I just want the nutrients.

I think I understand that I should be especially patient because I've already lost a fair amount of weight, and that may slow down the impact of the SLD's AS effect.  (I'm willing to be patient, but, I don't want to be too patient; if I'm doing something wrong, I'd like to fix it sooner, rather than later.)

Prior to trying SLD, I'd been following, fairly closely, Tim Ferriss's Slow-Carb Diet, and if that was working, (unclear), it was not working quickly.  I'd been doing both for a while, but lately I've relaxed the Slow-Carb thing, some, just to see if that changes anything.

Should I be consuming more of my calories flavorlessly? 
Should I be consuming fewer calories in flaxseed oil?
Am I already at a low enough body fat percentage that SLD should not be expect to do much for me?
I continue to work out; I continue to try to add muscle, so I'm still trying to be careful about reducing my intake too much... one needs calories to build muscles, and perhaps this makes SLD a bad idea in my case.

I'd be most appreciative of any thoughts or experiences anyone might be willing to share.

Karl

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numpty01

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Re: Still Waiting For Results
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2011, 01:49:04 PM »

Hey Karl,

Losing fat while gaining muscle is an interesting challenge and I've yet to crack that one myself - according to my scale that measures fat I am losing muscle as well as fat, albeit more fat. In the spirit of self-experimentation I've started looking at changing when I take protein to reduce the muscle I am losing. This is off the back of visible fat loss as well as what the scale is saying. Scanning about internet forums and blogs (quality varies) seems to suggest that most subscribe to the bulk or cut idea, that you can either gain muscle (and fat) or lose fat (and muscle) and just hope that the rate that either happens is in the direction you want. In my own situation my scale is saying I am above healthy fat range so I am focussing on that before trying to bulk up. I did try the Slow Carb Diet described by Tim Ferris in the 4 Hour Body book but struggled to stick to it.

I've found SLD to be a great way of losing weight, and the starting amount from the FAQ did the business for me together with calorie reduction. I've used canola and extra light olive oil with sugar water and started with only a tablespoon of oil. I'm impressed you managed to start with the amount of flaxseed oil you did!

A few questions:

  • How are you measuring your body fat?
  • Have you got the SLD book to get the principles of the diet, especially the 2 hour window either side of your flavourless calores?
  • Have you tried different oils / or times?
  • What is your daily calorie intake and macronutrient mix?

Interestingly I've being doing the Occam's Protocol machine routines from Ferris' 4 Hour Body book and added over 50% to my lifts etc, but still lost muscle. I'm looking in to bedtime protein etc to try and lessen my muscle loss. You'll find postings on my progress so far if you do a forum search.

All the best - and great to hear your progress (and an inspiration for me - I'm 11 years your junior and trying to get sorted for my next decade :))

N.
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karlskamera

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Re: Still Waiting For Results
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2011, 05:42:10 PM »

N., you asked:

A few questions:

    * How are you measuring your body fat?
    * Have you got the SLD book to get the principles of the diet, especially the 2 hour window either side of your flavourless calores?
    * Have you tried different oils / or times?
    * What is your daily calorie intake and macronutrient mix?

I've had my body fat measured with skin-fold callipers by a qualified professional... the same professional for the whole time.  (I am aware that the method is not perfect, but inasmuch as it has been generally in line with other observations, I'm going with it.)

Yes, I found a reference to SLD on Tim Ferriss's "Bonus Materials" pages, so I bought the book and read it before I started with SLD.  (I'd like to point out that the Kindle is a perfect tool for folks who *hate* to wait.  Jus' sayin'.)  I take the oil as the first thing I consume in the morning... and I consume nothing else, (don't even brush my teeth without a nose clip), until an hour, at least, has passed.

I have not tried different oils or times.  I was attracted to flaxseed because of the Omega-3 content.  Clipping my nose is a pain, so I've contemplated switching to a lighter tasting oil, but I am having a hard time justifying the nearly empty calories with few benefits.  Maybe the time of day that I take the oil is a problem.  I start my day very early... about 2:00 AM, I take the oil as soon as I'm awake enough to face it.  I try to take it soon enough that I don't have to brush my teeth with my nose clipped before I have to leave to catch the train.  Different times would be harder to do, as my schedule for eating and drinking a diet soda or two each day leaves few two hour windows.  Does that make a difference for some folks?  I was unaware that that could be a factor, but, that's why I posted; I hoped to learn more.

I think I'm consuming something around 2000 [kilo] calories per day.  I don't count them.  I try to skew my intake towards proteins and fats, and away from carbs, or at least the simple carbs.  (For example, breakfast this morning was a [grass fed] half sirloin steak, and a half a can of great northern beans.)

You also wrote: "Losing fat while gaining muscle is an interesting challenge [...]."  Yeah, tell me.  I've been doing it, I think, but it has been slow.  (I'm not really a patient person.)

You say: "Interestingly I've being doing the Occam's Protocol machine routines from Ferris' 4 Hour Body book and added over 50% to my lifts etc, but still lost muscle."  I know nothing about you, of course, but if you've boosted your weights by that much, I'd be shocked, *shocked*, if you had not, in fact, added muscle.  (In any case, those kinds of performance boosts are awe inspiring.  I'm going to console myself, and credit your youth, so I won't be consumed by jealousy.  (Hey, do you suppose jealousy burns calories?))  I've found that just as Ferriss says, the bathroom scale is a very  blunt instrument... it tells me almost nothing about what is going on with my body.

As it happens, in spite of our difference in ages, our goals appear to be very similar; *I* am trying to get myself sorted for the next several decades.  I will cyber-stalk you on these forums to find out what you've been up to...  I wish I'd started when I was your age. 

Be well,

Karl
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numpty01

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Re: Still Waiting For Results
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2011, 02:44:00 AM »

Hey Karl,

Well from your reply you would appear to have everything covered, and I would count your skin fold measurements as more reliable than my biolectric impedance scales - hence why I only take what my scale says as a rough measurement. I got to the SLD book the same way as you, and I'm with you on the Kindle editions - it would be really helpful to have these reference tomes handy!

As regards times folks take theirs at various times, and unfortunately the no so helpful reply would be "whatever works for you" - I'd say that the most important thing is to find the 2 hour window that fits in to your own personal routine - which you have. For folks who are nearer to their ideal weight like yourself it can take longer for an effect to be found, I got almost instant results due to all the extra fat I am carrying.

With oil calories included I am running a rough daily kcal deficit of 1400 and losing weight on that, and your diet sounds a lot healthier than mine too! Pending others chipping in, I would say that at your age your body fat percentage sounds really good :)

Cheers
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karlskamera

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Re: Still Waiting For Results
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2011, 05:49:36 AM »

Numpty, you wrote: "I got almost instant results due to all the extra fat I am carrying."

Let me fix your typo, if you will: "I got almost instant results due to all the extra fat I *WAS* carrying."

I've been reading your forum thread.  Oh.  My.

Your results are breathtaking.  Congratulations!!!

As for me, it is likely that few people who looked at me would say: "fat", I'm about 6' 4" and my weight today is 188 lbs.  I am perhaps 10 pounds above my "ideal" weight.  (Although 175 would be rail thin, and I have in mind to have a few more muscles than that.)   This will not make any sense to you, yet, but let me assure you that 51 is *young*, *young*, so no allowances should be made for "someone my age."  (This will make more sense to you in about 11 years; trust me.)  I'm trying to get down to 10 or 12% for purely cosmetic reasons, so I'm absolutely unwilling to compromise my health while I do that thus clenbuterol, amphetamines, the old aspirin, caffeine, ephedrine stack and the like are *right out*.   Still, I want to have visible abs.  I want to have enough [hungry] muscle that I can eat reasonable quantities of food and still not become obese.  And, I intend to try to stay sufficiently fit that by the time immobility finds me, I'll be too old to care.

I hold out hope that SLD will help me control my calorie intake, as I am not very good at being hungry.  I'm going to try to hide more of my calories in tastelessness and see if that has any impact.


And, say, if you've read 4HB, and SLD... I can recommend "Enter the Kettlebell", it covers the exercises that Ferriss touches on involving the kettlebell swing, and a bunch more.  I've been working on that for the past few weeks now, (with a trainer), and that is loads of fun.
 
Thanks,

Karl

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numpty01

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Re: Still Waiting For Results
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2011, 06:26:57 AM »

Hey Karl,

Cheers - after being the same weight despite trying various alternatives it is great to have something so simple that works. I've been fortunate I found a routine so quickly and a small amount, but I'm planning to switch over to flax oil. And I guess you are right about the fat I was carrying - I feel a lot lighter already but I'm the same height as you and about 100 pounds heavier :) And I suspected you were after showing your abs - that's the main reason as I understand it for getting the body fat percentage down - all the best with that.

SLD is a funny thing, for some it takes weeks to work, and sometimes less calories do the job - I'm on two tablespoons of oil at the moment and although I still want to eat I don't have the same cravings and I feel full a lot quicker, but mainly it stops starvation mode kicking in. Before SLD I could go to the gym every other day and not lose weight on a diet, then eat at a burger joint twice in one day and lose weight that day. On SLD I generally lose weight every day.

One of the guys at work was at a kettlebell class and we were comparing notes - only thing that put me off was low ceilings in my house - I don't want to explain ceiling dents to my wife  ;D But it does look like fun and simple too - amazing the number of exercises you can do with them.

N.
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