sethroberts.net forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Then I had breakfast and for the first time in my adult life I had a regular human breakfast. I ate a sufficient amount of food for a regular size human. And I was full. -- Morex

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Blood glucose monitor as a weight loss tool  (Read 36325 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Jbird

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 133
Re: Blood glucose monitor as a weight loss tool
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2010, 08:46:55 pm »

Todd, do you think I should continue to write about this topic over on your blog? I don't think anyone over here is much interested in this. I went looking for what I read about eating when blood glucose is 85 or lower:

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/3/1/42

There's also something about this on Seth's own blog, though more anecdotal:

http://blog.sethroberts.net/2008/09/15/new-way-to-lose-weight-dont-eat-till-your-blood-sugar-is-low-enough/

I've been reading up on normal blood sugar response and trying to understand as best I can what I'm noting in my self-monitoring, but I would really feel lost without your feedback, so thanks so much...as always! And your salad sounds delicious! I'm going to test some meals and create a series of calorie- and carb-controlled options for myself and that's definitely an inspiration! Since I live alone and work from home, I mostly eat by myself so I'm eager to have a basic structure in place that I can rely on and then I'll feel I don't have to be so strict on the occasions when I am eating with others. I'm feeling both relieved and excited about doing this because I was always trying every new diet that came along and never developing any consistency because never feeling that I was doing what was right for me. Now I finally feel I'm really zeroing in on a good system for myself. I'd like to explore other aspects of your deconditioning diet too. That's why I think I'll probably wind up writing more about my experiences over on your blog.
Logged


Heidi 555

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1675
Re: Blood glucose monitor as a weight loss tool
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2010, 03:50:45 pm »

Jbird, congrats on your success.† I am going to be borrowing a blood glucose monitor soon.† Your posts (and Todd's responses) around this have been really helpful for me and will give me something to follow when I get it.† I would really appreciate your continuing to post about your experimentation and results here.† I've read some on Todd's blog but haven't seen where you're posting over there.†

Also, so far your specific foods that do and don't cause an insulin spike make sense to me.† I don't think of Fiber One as "good carbs" even though many people do.† Sardines always give me good AS.† I'm really curious if nose clipping has any effect at all on blood glucose.†

Also thanks again Todd for all your posts and education around this.† Your website from the little I've read so far seems excellent.

Logged
It took 1 year of nose clipping
to lose 20 pounds (from about 140 to 120)
Dropped from size 8-10 to size 4
I'm 5' 4.5"

Read about my success nose clipping regular food instead of doing oil or sugar: http://boards.sethroberts.net/index.php?topic=5903.

TalkingRat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1624
Re: Blood glucose monitor as a weight loss tool
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2010, 05:00:05 pm »

Interesting about the <85 reading, but I am guessing this is for people who are not above 99 to begin with?† I rarely get below 100 on a doctor's fasting glucose test, and when I do, it is probably because I am rapidly on the way to hypoglycemic, when I shouldn't be waiting for a test before I eat.† I see from the Freestyle manual that finger is still the most accurate, although you could probably get away with arm for fasting levels, their cautions seem to be primarily for when your levels are changing quickly.† Arm sounds like a much more pleasant place to poke, when you use fingers 4x/day for weeks on end, your hand becomes a giant papercut.

I had gestational diabetes a couple decades ago, and Iím sure the rules have changed.† Even now there are differences in guidelines about what's normal glucose.† Based on what I saw online, it appears that after a 75g sugar load, a normal reading is† <140 after 2 hours, and that the same levels are applied to meals, although there's a big difference between what people eat for breakfast and dinner.† There also seemed to be disagreement between the endochrinologists and the ADA.† I've read normal levels are between 70 and 150, but there are differences on that, and variation by population and age.

JBird, did you decide your really low readings were errors?† From what I read, readings <70 (some say <50) generally suggest hypoglycemia, especially if you have symptoms.† And unless itís at a crisis point, the control for hypoglycemics is† a lot like that for hypergylcemics, a major focus on balance and avoiding simple carbs.

To control diabetes by diet, everything is carefully balanced.† When I had GD, I balanced carbs/proteins/fats, every single time I ate, big meal or snack, all the same.† A serving of carbs was no more than 15g.† Take your Fiber One at 25g, add almond breeze and I hate to think where my readings would be.† †There was no such calculation as 'net carbs,' every carb counts.† I avoided refined carbs because they release sugars so fast, so it was mostly complex carbs.† I could never have just oatmeal at breakfast, and cereal plus milk is not balanced, either.† Oatmeal and cottage cheese is closer.† Protein at every meal, with a bit of fat to slow digestion of carbs.†

Hypoglycemia can cause uncontrolled hunger, after the low glucose crisis is over.† When I started platinum calories, I went hypoglycemic and overcompensated.† And will continue to overcompensate whenever I let myself get too hungry.† Except,† I will plan ahead for next time.

A person with normal glucose may get more consistent readings from a meal, but when I tested, I could eat exactly the same things and have wildly different numbers the next time.† It helped when I found consistent patterns of what spiked my numbers every time, but often it was a mystery.† The GI research seems the same way, ok as a ballpark number, but the variation in testing between brands, or within brand at different times, is huge.†

Logged


Pip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 83
Re: Blood glucose monitor as a weight loss tool
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2010, 07:03:43 pm »


The points raised by you, pip and Tvix about a possible insulin response to allergenic foods is interesting, let's look into that.† If true, it could be useful.


This guy cites some studies that he says makes the connection between food allergies and insulin. I can't speak for credibility, but it's a start.
http://www.ultrawellness.com/blog/food-allergy

The reason I brought up the food allergies is that they are sometimes very hard to diagnose. Three different allergists did not find mine, nor even mention that it could be a possibility. Could wheat, gluten and other food allergies be much more prevalent than we realize?
Logged

Seth Roberts

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2570
Re: Blood glucose monitor as a weight loss tool
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2010, 08:42:14 am »

JBird, I am very interested in this. I've found there's a lot to be learned from these glucose tests and I'm really curious what others have learned. The main thing I learned, as I said, was that my fasting blood glucose was too high -- which I never suspected.
Logged

Jbird

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 133
Re: Blood glucose monitor as a weight loss tool
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2010, 09:23:23 am »

Talking Rat, I only had one reading I considered totally off (27), but all the others seem reasonable given that I am not diabetic and tend towards being hypoglycemic. This also means I need to prick my fingers and not other body parts. That's what my FreeStyle manual says, anyway, so that's what I've been doing. In my latest experiment, I've been trying to figure out if it's the caffeine or artificial sweetener or both that caused a spike yesterday morning when I tested my response to platinum coffee about an hour later. In the afternoon without sweetener it didn't cause a spike. I took Shovel Queen's advice today and repeated the experiment without the sweetener at the same time of day. Yesterday morning I had a spike of 128 (after a fasting reading of 85) after having coffee, coconut milk and sweetener. In the afternoon, it went from 96 before the platinum coffee and no sweetener to 76 afterwards. This morning, my fasting reading was 90 and after coffee and coconut milk but no sweetener it went down to 78. So for me, that seems pretty conclusive that the artificial sweetener was the culprit. I may try again with the artificial sweetener to confirm further tomorrow morning. I guess what I should try is a decaffeinated beverage with coconut milk and artificial sweetener to see what happens. Given how much artificially sweetened foods, gum, beverages, etc. I always had whenever I was on a diet, it's no wonder I've always had such a struggle with hunger and carb cravings if it was putting my blood sugar on a roller coaster ride! Re: what Seth said about not realizing he had elevated fasting readings, I also wonder how many people are unaware of early warning signs of high blood sugar/diabetes. Heidi, I wouldn't think noseclipping would affect blood sugar levels, but I never had the same success with my noseclipping attempts as you did. It would be interesting to see if you do try this and get different readings when noseclipping and not noseclipping the same foods in the same amounts the same time of day. If anyone has the persistence to carry out this experiment, it's you! I know you are good at being consistent. I'm generally not, but trying... I posted something similar to what I posted here on Todd's blog, "Getting Stronger," in the diet section using the name Jaye, which is my name. I'll keep posting here knowing that others, including Seth, are interested. I look forward to learning from Heidi and others willing to give this a try!
Logged


Pip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 83
Re: Blood glucose monitor as a weight loss tool
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2010, 11:35:13 am »

Thanks for reporting back. Very interesting but not surprising results.

Theoretically, artificial sweeteners shouldn't cause a BG spike, but something is going on. Sometimes it takes the scientists awhile to catch up with self-experimenter. Whatever the reason, I know they increase appetite for me. Maybe people with higher fasting BG are more sensitive to them. Maybe the sweet taste alone is some kind of conditioned cue that starts up other processes in your body. Anyway, why put something artificial in your body if you really don't have to?

Some scientists at Purdue University think artificial sweeteners could lead to weight gain:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080210183902.htm

This post by Seth was enough to put me off on Splenda forever:
http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/11/22/splenda-reduces-gut-bacteria-in-rats/
You didn't specify which sweetener you use. Is it Splenda? Maybe the spike was caused by all the dying bacteria.  :D

Seth's post also made me wonder about Xylitol. Xylitol is known to kill dental plaque inducing mico-organisms and yeast. So couldn't Xylitol also potentially kill helpful gut bacteria?

I am operating under the paradigm that if fed properly the body will naturally regulate appetite and try to maintain a health weight, therefore cravings, binges and excessive appetite are signals that one is not feeding the body correctly. If certain foods increase your appetite, don't eat them!


Logged

TalkingRat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1624
Re: Blood glucose monitor as a weight loss tool
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2010, 12:23:40 pm »

JBird, I'm looking forward to your findings.† I had misread, thought you had a couple readings in the 20s, and while regular hypoglycemia may be different than diabetic hypoglycemia, that was lower than any guideline I've seen

I've read a few studies that suggest coffee can drop glucose at fasting glucose levels, and raise it when taken with a large meal, and moderate it so it isn't hypoglycemic in the evening.† But the only studies I saw were for untreated Type II diabetes, and there didn't seem to be any validation. The† Freestyle site says 'the jury is still out.'

I'm curious about glucose levels with a successful noseclipper, especially what happens with high carb loads.† I had mixed results with noseclipping, and in retrospect, I may have been ok only with low GI, low calorie.† The 400+ calorie smoothies with CO, protein, and fruit only worked a few times, and then made me hungrier.† Lowfat milk was more filling than yogurt with HFCS.† So I'd expect to find a glucose spike from a noseclipped carb load.†
 
Logged


Jbird

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 133
Re: Blood glucose monitor as a weight loss tool
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2010, 02:15:45 pm »

Thanks for the info, Talking Rat! The Purdue study is interesting, especially the part about the rats' core temperature increasing less after artificial sweeteners. I've often noticed that I would get cold after I eat and maybe that's one reason why, since I was always drinking artificially sweetened beverages. I can't say for sure which type of artificial sweetener I used the other day. Normally I use Splenda, but I had some Equal and Sweet & Low packets in the same container and just grabbed one, so it's not the most scientific approach... I'm perfectly fine not using sweeteners, artificial or otherwise, so it's not a big sacrifice to stop using the stuff. I might try again to see if I get the same results. I think I saw somewhere (maybe www.glycemicindex.com, which reports on GI research from the U of Sydney) that coffee affects diabetics and non-diabetics differently. I didn't think to go to the Freestyle Web page to see what information they have there. I'll check that out, since it's probably a good source of info on glucose monitoring, and I feel like such a novice.
Logged


Heidi 555

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1675
Re: Blood glucose monitor as a weight loss tool
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2010, 05:36:14 pm »

TalkingRat -- welcome back!!!  I'm glad that the platinum calories are working for you.  Thanks for your informative posts.

Pip -- thanks for joining us and posting your experience.  You wrote a great post on the appetite suppression thread:  http://boards.sethroberts.net/index.php?topic=2169.msg96996#msg96996  I loved how you layed out the appetite stimulant issues and ways to address them.

Jbird and everyone -- I got 2 blood glucose monitors from my friend but they were old and hadn't been used in awhile.  Both of them had dead batteries and outdated test strips.  Plus they might be outdated enough that you can't get new strips for them.  So my blood testing has been put on hold until I come up with another option.  So I'm taking a lazy approach and will learn from your experimentation instead of doing my own for now.   :)

Logged
It took 1 year of nose clipping
to lose 20 pounds (from about 140 to 120)
Dropped from size 8-10 to size 4
I'm 5' 4.5"

Read about my success nose clipping regular food instead of doing oil or sugar: http://boards.sethroberts.net/index.php?topic=5903.

xtine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
Re: Blood glucose monitor as a weight loss tool
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2010, 06:17:29 pm »

Hello Todd and all,
Fascinating stuff!  I have a question for Todd: Do you think Coconut Milk has the same virtues as coconut oil? I've been mixing it with FSO at night for my SLD calories and it's very palatable, easy to consume, and I'd rather have coconut milk (full fat) than the oil.
Similar effect on blood sugar and energy? I certainly get energy and increased body heat from both the milk and the oil.

Interesting about the hour's walk a day, Seth!  I know I feel really good when I have a LONG walk in a way I don't with shorter bursts-- it really regulates appetite for me, I never thought it was connected to blood glucose levels. 
Logged


NTB

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 167
    • Getting Stronger
Re: Blood glucose monitor as a weight loss tool
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2010, 10:49:32 pm »

Hello Todd and all,
Do you think Coconut Milk has the same virtues as coconut oil? I've been mixing it with FSO at night for my SLD calories and it's very palatable, easy to consume, and I'd rather have coconut milk (full fat) than the oil.
Similar effect on blood sugar and energy? I certainly get energy and increased body heat from both the milk and the oil.
Yes, CO is one of the major components of CM, as I mentioned on an earlier post.† CM also has some other beneficial fatty acids, including omega 3.† It does have some other carbohydrates, but these are at a low level and not a problem. While CM is a bit more dilute than CM, it has the advantage of being well emulsified and easy to add to coffee, tea or other beverages.† It has a pleasant flavor and natural sweetness that make it easy to avoid adding sugar or artificial sweeteners.† And as you say, virtually the same in terms of being energizing and blood-sugar lowering.† Enjoy!
Logged
Click HERE to check out the Deconditioning Diet and other self-improvement ideas on my blog "Getting Stronger"

Jbird

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 133
Re: Blood glucose monitor as a weight loss tool
« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2010, 11:43:17 am »

Todd, not sure if you would know but I've been wondering whether CO and CM may not be beneficial for someone who is more prone to low rather than high blood sugar. I'm thinking it may not be such a good thing for me. As of today, I'm not going to use it for awhile.
Logged


Pip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 83
Re: Blood glucose monitor as a weight loss tool
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2010, 05:00:14 pm »


Pip -- thanks for joining us and posting your experience.  You wrote a great post on the appetite suppression thread:  http://boards.sethroberts.net/index.php?topic=2169.msg96996#msg96996  I loved how you layed out the appetite stimulant issues and ways to address them.


Your kind words are much appreciated.  :D
Logged

xtine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
Re: Blood glucose monitor as a weight loss tool
« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2010, 09:07:28 pm »


Quote
Yes, CO is one of the major components of CM, as I mentioned on an earlier post.† CM also has some other beneficial fatty acids, including omega 3.† It does have some other carbohydrates, but these are at a low level and not a problem. While CM is a bit more dilute than CM, it has the advantage of being well emulsified and easy to add to coffee, tea or other beverages.† It has a pleasant flavor and natural sweetness that make it easy to avoid adding sugar or artificial sweeteners.† And as you say, virtually the same in terms of being energizing and blood-sugar lowering.† Enjoy!
Quote
Thanks so much Todd, for your constant helpful input.  Much appreciated.  You too Pip for the appetite lever post.  I do find CM much easier and nicer to consume, and mix with other things, than CO. 
Logged


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Up
 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18