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[lynne]

Ok, I am new both to SLD and using forums, so please excuse my ignorance. I just discovered Seth Roberts book in the library a week ago by accident. I tried not to get too excited, because I have tried every diet imaginable and like everyone else always put on all of the weight back on plus more. I have been tentitively doing the ELOO for the last 5 days and have the same kind of results most people on this forum talk about, so I am now really letting myself hope. The question that has been bugging me is why havent I heard about this till now? Its been two years since the book was published and the results seem so amazing I cant understand why it hasnt become front page news all over the western world? The media is so obsessed with the obesity epidemic and dieting and weight loss in general, I am amazed this hasnt been picked up yet. It is the only thing that makes me doubt its true effectiveness. Can anyone enlighten me?

[rs-px]

Ok, I am new both to SLD and using forums, so please excuse my ignorance. I just discovered Seth Roberts book in the library a week ago by accident. I tried not to get too excited, because I have tried every diet imaginable and like everyone else always put on all of the weight back on plus more. I have been tentitively doing the ELOO for the last 5 days and have the same kind of results most people on this forum talk about, so I am now really letting myself hope. The question that has been bugging me is why havent I heard about this till now? Its been two years since the book was published and the results seem so amazing I cant understand why it hasnt become front page news all over the western world? The media is so obsessed with the obesity epidemic and dieting and weight loss in general, I am amazed this hasnt been picked up yet. It is the only thing that makes me doubt its true effectiveness. Can anyone enlighten me?

Hi Lynne! Welcome to SLD. This is one of the nicest online communities I've ever been a member of, and if you want help, just ask. I'm a relative newbie but there are some fantastically experienced people here who will reply.

I know exactly what you mean about SLD. I learned about it a few years ago and thought, "Yeah! Right! Some crank money spinner making-up nonsense".

Then I tried it. It didn't work initially and I thought my suspicions were proved right. Then I had a break through and I could barely believe it. When it works it's something else. It's just weird.

Why isn't it front-page news? Why don't doctors even know about it, never-mind prescribe it?

1) Lack of clinical trials. The world needs proof. Doctors need lots and lots of proof. In an interview on CBC, Seth said there's no need for trials to prove something which is obvious. But there is. Especially bearing in mind SLD is counter-intuitive and has the classic signs of being a fad diet. Because of this, I don't think doctors will even prescribe it as an alternative therapy for fear of being called quack.

2) The book was written too quickly and doesn't include enough advice on what to do if it doesn't work. It's more about psychology than it is about technique---Seth Roberts wrote a book for people like him, rather than people like us. So many, many people didn't get initial results and walked away. I would have walked away had it not been for people on this forum. Many people who succeed on this diet tend to be very rigourous in their intellectual processes when, really, this could and should be a diet for everybody.

Don't get me wrong. If Seth Roberts were here right now I'd embrace him and smother him in kisses. If I were a woman I'd suggest I have his babies. The man is a genius for figuring out SLD. But I think he went about marketing SLD in the wrong way. As somebody who is fat, and even when slim will be a "recovering fat person", and whose family are fat, I really hope that any second edition of the book is more about technique. SLD can change the world. It just has to be done right.

[Heidi 555]

Its been two years since the book was published and the results seem so amazing I cant understand why it hasnt become front page news all over the western world?

Many of us wonder the same thing.  However, most people aren't interested in the diet and are put off by it to varying degrees.  It seems to only click for people who are perhaps more adventurous and willing to try more unusual things.

I really hope that any second edition of the book is more about technique. SLD can change the world. It just has to be done right.

rs-px - I think you should write the next book on SLD!  You have a great writing style that is very entertaining.  Maybe SLD needs more books from different people's perspective.

[Kirk]

I wouldn't be surprised if this book develops legs.  Some books come out of nowhere to become successful.  It could be there needs to be a critical mass of people who have had success before it becomes generally-accepted wisdom.

I too would like to see clinical trials.  And more rat trials.  I liked reading about those rat trials.

Also, and this is probably just me, I am not enchanted with the title.  If another book is written, I think it should sound something more like Hacking Your Hunger.

[rps930]

Totally agree with Heidi, you should at least coauthor a new edition of the book.  I remember when first starting this program, wanting to tell the world, but know what, at the first mention of oil, people just turned off, and even when they commented on my tremendous weight loss, they still wouldn't try it.  Human nature is a wonderful thing...lol
So happy things are going well for you, it is a marvelous journey.

[lynne]

Thanks rx-pf! That was a good explaination. I have been thinking too, and it is a strange little book! I saw Seth Roberts on the CBC interview and I thought he was very endearing and immediately liked and trusted him (Im not easy to impress either), but my impression was he was a bit naive about the marketing side of things. Not that I would ever suggest marketing his ideas in a big-business way, but these days that seems to be the only way anything ever gets accepted on a large scale. I think your right about it only appealing to  people who are more independent thinkers. I have been reluctant to talk to certain people about the really quite amazing results I have had because most people I know are still stuck on the 'calorie in calorie out' paradigm, 'you just have to have will power, exercise more and eat less junk' school of thought. I have long been frustrated with that approach because it so blatantly doesnt work and I am often shocked that people persist with it. I have been searching for a voice of reason for ages and I must say I really had a good intuitive feeling about Seth's theory. I dont need clinical trials, and prefer to test things myself. A couple of my otherwise intellegent friends dont want to even try it........this just boggles my mind! But I guess they are the majority and thats why its not front page news. But if it works as well for most people as it seems to be for me, then eventually the rest will follow I suppose.

By the way I am really amazed by the effect it is having on my appetite. I LOVE my food and have always kept eating beyond when I felt full if the food was really good, but I just need to stop now because I feel so stuffed on much less food. I dont really go in for junk food though, because I am a perfectionist about quality fresh food and flavours and junk food mostly just tastes wrong to me.

PS I CAN and would have his babies, and smother him in kisses too! Just joking, probably too old to have anyones babies!

[Seth Roberts]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I love the idea that it should be front-page news, of course. Almost all diets get widely accepted without clinical trials -- Atkins, for example. I doubt lack of clinical trials is a big deal. I think that the diet is just so counter-intuitive it is hard to accept. I can't think of another diet where the usual reaction was "this cannot possibly work". But I also tend to agree with the idea that the book could have been more user-friendly. My editor & I did our best...but the publisher was so concerned with secrecy -- no early copies getting out, in other words --  and a quick release that there wasn't much user testing. I think given a diet that's drastically different from all previous diets, it's really really hard -- maybe impossible -- to figure out how best to market it. I do think that lots of things that seem impossible or absurd eventually get accepted.

[rs-px]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I love the idea that it should be front-page news, of course. Almost all diets get widely accepted without clinical trials -- Atkins, for example. I doubt lack of clinical trials is a big deal. I think that the diet is just so counter-intuitive it is hard to accept. I can't think of another diet where the usual reaction was "this cannot possibly work". But I also tend to agree with the idea that the book could have been more user-friendly. My editor & I did our best...but the publisher was so concerned with secrecy -- no early copies getting out, in other words --  and a quick release that there wasn't much user testing. I think given a diet that's drastically different from all previous diets, it's really really hard -- maybe impossible -- to figure out how best to market it. I do think that lots of things that seem impossible or absurd eventually get accepted.

Hi Seth -- thanks for the reply. Sorry if I sounded rude earlier 

Are you working on a second edition? Your publishers would be remiss if they haven't suggested it.

In the second edition I think you should involve the SLD community more -- interview people like Karky to find out how she did it (and is doing it!). This will continue the "Web 2.0" vibe that surrounded the first book but also allow you to expand on the technique side.

As for Atkins, well, he was an MD. That helped a lot. People trust doctors. And, like you say, it took his book 20 years to get accepted.

As you acknowledge, your diet could not sound more like a fad diet. It just sounds crazy. If I got a spam message saying that I could drink oil to lose weight, I wouldn't be surprised. SLD sounds "spammy". You have to work hard to get past this conception. The only way to do that is evidence -- clinical trials. Pointing to a forum full of success stories isn't enough. Nobody thinks "internet evidence" is good for anything -- you can prove anything on the Internet :roll:

Incidentally, I'm posting all this because I care passionately about helping people lose weight. I really think your breakthrough can do this. I want you to get it out there to more people.

[Seth Roberts]

Thanks for the additional comments. I'm not writing a 2nd edition at the moment; I'm writing a book about self-experimentation. But I am involved in clnical-trial-like research related to SLD.

The Atkins diet didn't take 20 years to get accepted, more like 4 years. Then it died out and was revived by Gary Taubes.

[rs-px]

Thanks for the additional comments. I'm not writing a 2nd edition at the moment; I'm writing a book about self-experimentation. But I am involved in clnical-trial-like research related to SLD.

The Atkins diet didn't take 20 years to get accepted, more like 4 years. Then it died out and was revived by Gary Taubes.

It looks like the first Atkins book was published in 1972/3 (Atkins Diet Revolution), and then the whole concept was revived in the late 90s with the New Diet Revolution. He kept plugging away at it during the 80s too with some more books:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=robert+atkins+diet+revolution+-new&x=0&y=0

Seth, I want to be at the stage where doctors and nurses have at least heard of SLD, so I hope the trial goes well.

[Kirk]

But I also tend to agree with the idea that the book could have been more user-friendly. My editor & I did our best...but the publisher was so concerned with secrecy -- no early copies getting out, in other words --  and a quick release that there wasn't much user testing. I think given a diet that's drastically different from all previous diets, it's really really hard -- maybe impossible -- to figure out how best to market it. I do think that lots of things that seem impossible or absurd eventually get accepted.

I thought the writing in the book was clear.  It's amazingly difficult to write clearly.  And I appreciated the length of the book.  My wife and I often joke about reading some big-name non-fiction book and all we need to do is find the two important paragraphs in each chapter -- the rest is filler to make that 100,000 word target set by the editor. Too bad, as my teenage son says, that we're part of the last generation to read books.  (I hope he's joking about that, but I'm not sure).

[Tandoori Trilobite]

Some other ideas that obviously seemed counterintuitive at the time:

• Female suffrage.
• That the earth is round, not flat, and that it travels around the sun, and not vice versa.
• That all objects intrinsically fall at the same speed irrespective of weight.  (In fact, it's only air resistance that makes a difference.)
• That it would be possible for humans to travel at a speed much above 25 mph without dying from suffocation.
• A use for gasoline.  Early oil refiners used to burn it off as a useless left-over product.
• Space travel.  How could a rocket fly when there's no air out there in space for its thrust to push against?
• The ubiquity of computers.  IBM's early assessment was that there would be a worldwide market for perhaps five computers.

I'd say you're in good company, Seth. :)

[rs-px]

But I also tend to agree with the idea that the book could have been more user-friendly. My editor & I did our best...but the publisher was so concerned with secrecy -- no early copies getting out, in other words --  and a quick release that there wasn't much user testing. I think given a diet that's drastically different from all previous diets, it's really really hard -- maybe impossible -- to figure out how best to market it. I do think that lots of things that seem impossible or absurd eventually get accepted.

I thought the writing in the book was clear.  It's amazingly difficult to write clearly.  And I appreciated the length of the book.  My wife and I often joke about reading some big-name non-fiction book and all we need to do is find the two important paragraphs in each chapter -- the rest is filler to make that 100,000 word target set by the editor. Too bad, as my teenage son says, that we're part of the last generation to read books.  (I hope he's joking about that, but I'm not sure).

I work as a professional author and editor. The main reason why books come in so large nowadays is word processing. It makes it amazingly easy to generate a 500,000 word doorstop of a novel. There's an interesting backlash happening amongst some fiction authors who turning to typewriters. British author Will Self says he's starting using a typewriter to help him "think on the page, rather than on the screen".

See also http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7427237.stm

As for your son saying we're the last generation to read books, well, I think he's wrong. He just means that his generation doesn't read books because they prefer the instant information hit of the Internet. But pretty soon there will be a backlash against the Internet and people will start to crave substantial information. You just wait...

[stainless]

Personally, I have a hard time seeing myself tell people about SLD.  Recently, people have been commenting about my weight loss a lot.  Most of the weight I have lost has been on South Beach, but I didn't get many comments until now (close to 2 weeks on SLD).  If people ask if I'm on a diet, I say I'm on South Beach.  The only person I've told about SLD is my wife, and she specifically told me not to tell her family about SLD. 

Which isn't to say I don't believe in SLD, I can see and feel the benefits.  I just can't picture myself spreading the word, as it were. 

[lynne]

Stainless, why dont you tell people about SLD?