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I'm on day 5. I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT THIS WORKS!!!! I told my sister about it and while she scoffed at first she's on Day 2 and as ecstatic as I am. My appetite is a fraction of what it used to be and I no longer have trouble drinking the oil (in fact, I look forward to it because I know what it's going to do for me).  I'm totally confident that I'm going to be able to lose the 20 lbs of baby weight.  I'm telling you, I could cry. -- Katy

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Author Topic: Pease pudding hot, pease pudding COLD..Fat Burning Breakthrough  (Read 7601 times)

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VeganKitten

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Re: Pease pudding hot, pease pudding COLD..Fat Burning Breakthrough
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2008, 05:06:01 pm »

Usually when something sounds too good to be true, it is. You might want to read what Dr. Eades says about this:
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/metabolism/resistant-starch/#more-1182

Yes but...

consider the source.
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multimoe

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Re: Pease pudding hot, pease pudding COLD..Fat Burning Breakthrough
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2008, 06:23:16 pm »

If you scroll through the dozens of entries on Resistant Starch citing study after study, you will eventually find Dr. Eades' entry, taking advantage of one unfortunate video that does more to disparage nutritionists than anything else.  Say no more.

Just a tiny sample of the many sources of information on Resistant Starch that I sought out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistant_starch
Many public health authorities and food organizations such as the Food and Agricultural Organization, the World Health Organization[3], the British Nutrition Foundation[4] and the U.S. National Academy of Sciences[5] recognize resistant starch as a beneficial carbohydrate. The Joint Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations/World Health Organization Expert Consultation on Human Nutrition stated, "One of the major developments in our understanding of the importance of carbohydrates for health in the past twenty years has been the discovery of resistant starch.”[6]
Substantial research of natural resistant starches from high amylose corn indicates benefits in intestinal/colonic health as well as metabolically important benefits in glycemic management and energy. Studies have shown that different classes of resistant starch are digested and/or fermented differently and thus must be considered individually.


American Journal of clinical Nutrition
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/82/3/559

Resistant Starch.com
http://www.resistantstarch.com/ResistantStarch/Clinical+Studies/Selected+Studies
...120 peer reviewed studies
  A new study led by Dr. Shusuke Toden, CSIRO Human Nutrition, Adelaide, Australia, and published in Cancer Biology & Therapy, showed natural resistant starch prevents colonic DNA damage induced by a high protein diet.


http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/8
....These data indicate that replacement of 5.4% of total dietary carbohydrate with RS significantly increased post-prandial lipid oxidation and therefore could decrease fat accumulation in the long-term
.


I assume that all the adults here would do their own research on this subject before making any decisions.

What’s wrong with a ½ cup of beans and a ½ cup of brown rice, and perhaps a mouthful of potato or ½ cup lentils per day?  That’s the most you would need to eat to get the benefits of Resistant Starch, and you really don't even need that much
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shovelqueen

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Re: Pease pudding hot, pease pudding COLD..Fat Burning Breakthrough
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2008, 06:25:40 pm »

Usually when something sounds too good to be true, it is. You might want to read what Dr. Eades says about this:
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/metabolism/resistant-starch/#more-1182

[/color]

Consider the source before believing this blog wholeheartedly either.  Dr. Eades is a major proponent of low carb, and a best-selling author, with an "empire" of Protein Power products and branding to protect.  He can't exactly endorse anything that says that starchy foods are a healthy addition to the diet, now can he?  He attacks the dietitian, as though she is personally responsible for this information, which is really unprofessional, in my opinion.  And all the RD is saying is that 1/2 cup of one of these starches, added to your daily diet, is a health-promoting behavior.  

He sounds a little defensive to me.  Wonder why??
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VeganKitten

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Re: Pease pudding hot, pease pudding COLD..Fat Burning Breakthrough
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2008, 06:48:58 pm »

Writers like this really get on 'me tits!  :lol:
Quote
There are probably over 1600 studies showing the purported benefits of statin drugs, but we all know what those are. The 160 studies purporting to show benefit for resistant starch are probably in the same mold. Let’s forget about the studies...

(my emphasis added)

Is he serious ?!  :lol: :shock:
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nougat

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Re: Pease pudding hot, pease pudding COLD..Fat Burning Breakthrough
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2008, 12:04:05 am »

A question.  must the food be cold or just cool or perhaps warm???  would cooled and warmed up have the same effect??  cos i imagine that the cold food , once chewed would have warmed up a bit by the time it reaches our stomachs.  and altho i like the items cold, in winter i prefer warm food!!!
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SixtiesLibber

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Re: Pease pudding hot, pease pudding COLD..Fat Burning Breakthrough
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2008, 07:11:03 am »

What’s wrong with a ½ cup of beans and a ½ cup of brown rice, and perhaps a mouthful of potato or ½ cup lentils per day?  That’s the most you would need to eat to get the benefits of Resistant Starch.

The question is how many grams of carbs are in the 1/2 cup of beans and what per cent of those are Resistant Starch?

Is there any source of 100% resistant starch?
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SixtiesLibber

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Re: Pease pudding hot, pease pudding COLD..Fat Burning Breakthrough
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2008, 09:38:33 am »

You really do owe it to your health to read Gary Taubes book called "Good Calories, Bad Calories" if you want to understand the science that supports low-carb and the politics, marketing, big business, and junk science behind the anti-low-carb movement.  Taubes is a scientist and science writer who spent 5 years researching his book. He's not selling anything except the book and you can probably get that out of the library.
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multimoe

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Re: Pease pudding hot, pease pudding COLD..Fat Burning Breakthrough
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2008, 12:11:43 pm »

You really do owe it to your health to read Gary Taubes' book called "Good Calories, Bad Calories" if you want to understand the science that supports low-carb and the politics, marketing, big business, and junk science behind the anti-low-carb movement.  
I read “Good Calories Bad Calories” twice last Christmas, and refer to it often. I am a fan of Gary Taubes. I have also read quite a bit of Taubes' other writings.  I do not consider my interest in the subject of Resistant Starch to have anything to do with the “anti-low-carb” movement or with big business or marketing.  I am simply interested in knowing everything that would benefit my health and do not jump on the bandwagon of any fads. I research very thoroughly and do not proseltyze or blindly follow conventional wisdom.  No one is talking about ingesting any amount of regular carbs like sweets, French fries, white bread—Gary’s enemies.  It’s about relatively small amounts of altered starches that have the potential for great health benefits.

I opened this subject here so that anyone who is interested may pursue it if they wish and make their own decisions.

SixtiestLibber, you asked about carbs in beans:  Just a couple of the many sites available online:

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrition/a/resistantstarch.htm
 Beans are the very best food source…. the starch in beans is about evenly dividied between slowly-digested starch and resistant starch. Whole, intact grains are decent sources of resistant starch. The starch in pearl barley is about 12% resistant and 43% slowly-digesting. Bulgar wheat and long grain brown rice are similar.

FOOD         SERV.SIZE          TOTAL CARBS         RESIS.STARCH    (All approx)      
NavyBeans   ½ c.cooked              18.5                          9.8

MSN report from Prevention .com

http://healthandfitness.sympatico.msn.ca/Natures+FatBurning+Breakthrough/Home/ContentPosting_P.aspx?isfa=1&newsitemid=145557&feedname=RODALE-PREVENTION&show=False&number=0&showbyline=True&subtitle=&detect=&abc=abc&date=False

…One study found that replacing just 5.4% of total carbohydrate intake with resistant starch created a 20 to 30% increase in fat burning after a meal

MAGPIE,  Most studies I have seen so far have not reported much on the effect of reheating:

From Prevention.com article quoting Leslie Bonci, RD, author of the American Dietetic Association's Guide to Better Digestion.

http://healthandfitness.sympatico.msn.ca/Natures+FatBurning+Breakthrough/Home/ContentPosting_P.aspx?isfa=1&newsitemid=145557&feedname=RODALE-PREVENTION&show=False&number=0&showbyline=True&subtitle=&detect=&abc=abc&date=False

In cooked starchy foods, resistant starch is created during cooling. Cooking triggers starch to absorb water and swell, and as it slowly cools, portions of the starch become crystallized into the form that resists digestion. Cooling either at room temperature or in the refrigerator will raise resistant starch levels. Just don't reheat. That breaks up the crystals, causing resistant starch levels to plummet.

And regarding the glycemic index:
aDepartment of Biochemistry and Food Chemistry, University of Turku, FIN-20014, Finland
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WJH-4J9X2W2-4&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=e4269e6b7469ce410e66d50aab7701dc
Conclusion. Cooling and cold storage, despite reheating, lowered GIs of potato products by about 25%.
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SixtiesLibber

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Re: Pease pudding hot, pease pudding COLD..Fat Burning Breakthrough
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2008, 07:00:37 am »

OK, you made me feel obligated to learn more. I've just read all 14 pages of a fascinating recent review article on resistant starch.  The title is "Resistant Starch -- A Review" and it was published in Vol. 5, 2006 of "Comprehensive Reviews in Food Science and Food Safety. Here's a link to the PDF file:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1541-4337.2006.tb00076.x

Here's my summary of this article.

"Resistant starch [RS] [a term first coined in 1982] is the component of starch that is not digested in the small intestine and has physiological properties similar to that of dietary fiber." 

Starchy foods have three kinds of starch: rapidly digested starch (RDS), slowly digested starch (SDS), and RS. RDS and SDS are both digested in the small intestine; RDS is completely digested in about 20 minutes and SDS is completely digested in about 2 hours.

Metabolism of RS in the large intestine occurs 5 to 7 hours after consumption. RS is fermented by the colonic flora to produce short-chain fatty acids.   It provides energy to the cells in the colon and also the rest of the body.  30%-70% of RS is metabolized and the balance excreted.

In one study comparing human subjects, there was considerable variation in the per cent metabolized. On average, the subjects extracted about 3 Cal from a gram of RS in comparison to about 4 Cal from a gram of ordinary carbohydrates.

There are actually three kinds of resistant starch that occur naturally in foods. The amount of RS3 present can be considerably increased by cooking and related processing. There are many different factors that affect the formation of RS3 starch produced by processing a starchy food.  These include the amount of water, the temperature, processing conditions such as pressure cooking or autoclaving, the nature of other compounds naturally present in the material being processed, and certain added compounds. The effects of these factors are so varied that it isn't possible to generalize. However it is true that for most starchy foods, cold storage after processing generally increases the RS for storage times of up to two to four days.

Because of all these factors, it is difficult to control the amount of RS3 present in a given sample.  It is also difficult to analyze food for resistant starch. However, the figure of 50% resistant starch that Trina gave for navy beans is certainly within the realm of possibility.

Resistant starch is what you might call a "good carb" in that your body doesn't metabolize it like ordinary carbs so eating resistant starch doesn't have the bad effects that eating ordinary carbs does.  If you are familiar with the idea of subtracting fiber carbs from total carbs to get ECC or effective carb count, you could do the same thing with RS carbs. In other words, RS carbs count as calories but not grams of carbs if you are counting carbs.

Unfortunately, in order to get RS from ordinary food, you have to eat the ordinary carbs along with it. So you are eating something bad for you together with something good for you.  For example, if you wanted to eat 20 g of RS and you were lucky enough to have a starchy food that was 50% RS, you would also have to eat 20 g of ordinary carbs, which is the max allowed per day on a really low carb diet.

There have been some negative effects of RS seen in rats that may or may not affect humans. Further studied is required.

There are definitely some good effects on the colon. RS can have a positive impact on colonic health similar to fiber; it can reduce cholesterol and tryglycerides; and it may help prevent colon cancer. Some studies show increased benefit of combining RS with insoluble fiber like wheat bran or with psyllium.

It is not clear to me whether there is any benefit from RS that you don't get from fiber.  However, there are a number of companies working on methods to develop pure RS. I believe manufactured RS is currently used in special foods for diabetics.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 08:48:44 am by SixtiesLibber »
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multimoe

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Re: Pease pudding hot, pease pudding COLD..Fat Burning Breakthrough
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2008, 08:50:59 am »

SixtiestLibber, sorry for sounding so fanatical--god, that's the last thing I want!

I had read that study as well, but had not included the link because of its technical nature.

If I may, I would like to insert just one significant quote from that study:
                     
                       . Foods containing high levels of RS  yield fewer calories and
                       lower glycaemic loads—important formulation considerations
                       for diabetics as well as the weight-conscious


I don’t believe we have to eat “bad carbs” at all to get the resistant starch we need.  After a lot reading on this, (and I’m still reading)  it is my view that the optimum method of obtaining the considerable benefits of RS, for now, without significant “bad carbs” would be to limit consumption to natural resistant starch found in beans and/or brown rice until we know more about the addition of RS, such as from high amylose corn, to other foods. 

Since I never eat potatoes or bread anyway, and only rarely brown rice, I am taking it slowly and staying with beans and some brown rice. Beans are a lowfat source of protein, are slowly digested,  do not cause blood sugar spikes, and just 1 cup per day gives approx 20 grams RS—all we need.  I spread the 1 cup throughout the day (cold) with food.  That’s about 210 calories for great northern beans, e.g.   Not really much of a dietary adjustment, except to measure amount and have them cooled.

Eliminating breads, sugars and starches completely for the past 18 months, with the help of SLD, has allowed me to gradually reach the correct weight for my body (from 134 to 110) I have no desire for them now, and my weight doesn't seem to be changing. I had been avoiding beans, but since I started  2 weeks ago to add some of the cold beans with each meal or snack, I definitely am wanting to eat less.  My two test subjects, my husband and sister, report the same, and they are adding or alternating small portions of potato as well.

Who can argue about the benefits of beans?
http://americanbean.org/diets-including-beans-may-reduce-your-risk-of-heart-disease-and-certain-cancers   

A short, easy to read overview of Resistant Starch comes from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistant_starch
             short excerpt:  Many public health authorities and food
             organizations such as the Food and Agricultural Organization, the World
             Health Organization, the British Nutrition Foundation and the U.S. National
             Academy of Sciences recognize resistant starch as a beneficial carbohydrate.
             The Joint Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations/World
             Health Organization Expert Consultation on Human Nutrition stated, "One
             of the major developments in our understanding of the importance of
             carbohydrates for health in the past twenty years has been the discovery of
             resistant starch.”


PS.  I'm for questioning everything but staying open-minded and knowledge-seeking.
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Magpie

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Re: Pease pudding hot, pease pudding COLD..Fat Burning Breakthrough
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2008, 10:45:59 am »

Girls - this is fascinating - thanks for all the good research!!
  Foods containing high levels of RS  yield fewer calories and
                       lower glycaemic loads—important formulation considerations
                       for diabetics as well as the weight-conscious


Prof Jennie Brand -Miller has found that the GI of home cooked red kidney beans is lower than that of canned ones - so I wonder if it would follow that the home cooked would therefore have more RS?

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multimoe

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Re: Pease pudding hot, pease pudding COLD..Fat Burning Breakthrough
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2008, 11:27:03 am »

Prof Jennie Brand -Miller has found that the GI of home cooked red kidney beans is lower than that of canned ones - so I wonder if it would follow that the home cooked would therefore have more RS?
Magpie, glad to hear that about the home-cooked beans, since that is what I use. Dirt cheap.

BUT,  I always have canned beans on hand, have used this little recipe to them just for a little variety: 
                     The recipe is for 4 cans beans, but I usually make ½ recipe, or make full
                     recipe and save some.  We love this cold, now, too.

FAST “BAKED” BEANS
4 cans beans      
2 tsp Olive Oil       1 sm.onion diced.
1 c.Ketchup           1 Tb. Dijon must.
½ tsp. Worcest.      ¼ tsp. salt
pinch gr. Cloves      3 Tb. Molasses

1.Cook onion in oil in saucepan til tender
2.Stir in Ketchup,molasses, mustard,
    Worcestershire sauce, salt, cloves and
    ½ c. water.  Simmer 5 minutes.
3. Add beans.

yummy.  Oh, I don't usually have molasses on hand: brown sugar or sweetener (yikes!) works too.
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Magpie

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Re: Pease pudding hot, pease pudding COLD..Fat Burning Breakthrough
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2008, 11:32:19 am »

Yum - sounds good, quick and easy! I'll bet a bit of mince added to this would be really good too.   I've always loved beans but worried they were fattening - good to have some of the guilt removed!  BTW did you know cooked beans freeze really well?  I've been using canned ones for the convenience recently, but will go back to my old ways after what I read.
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multimoe

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Re: Pease pudding hot, pease pudding COLD..Fat Burning Breakthrough
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2008, 11:36:05 am »

  BTW did you know cooked beans freeze really well?  I've been using canned ones for the convenience

Did not know that!  I'm famous for making huge batches of stuff  for freezing.  Make room for the beans!
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SixtiesLibber

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Re: Pease pudding hot, pease pudding COLD..Fat Burning Breakthrough
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2008, 01:01:40 pm »

Trina, I don't think either one of us wanted to sound fanatical.  I think we've just interpreted the same information differently.

And congratulations on reaching your goal!

I don't find it hard to believe that replacing some calories with cold beans could cause appetite suppression at least until they turn into a ditto food.

Unfortunately, based on my understanding of the Review article I referenced, there is no way you can be sure that your navy beans are 50% RS. They could be quite a bit more or less depending on the exact variety of beans and their growing conditions, how long you cooked them, whether or not you have hard water, whether or not you added salt or other flavorings, whether you cooked them on top of the stove, in the oven or in the microwave, and all sorts of other factors. 

I'm at the point where I would not want to waste 20 grams of countable carbs on eatings 50% RS beans (even if I could be sure of that 50%) to get 20 g of RS although I like beans. I'd rather eat chocolate  That's all I meant by "bad carbs:"  those regular carbs that get digested in your small intestine and cause all the problems that Gary Taubes writes about.

I do agree that (carb gram for carb gram) foods containing "higher levels of RS yield fewer calories and lower glycaemic loads" than foods with higher levels (per cents) of regular carbs. The same is true of foods where a higher proportion of the carbs are fiber.  (The calories are less because neither RS or fiber are fully digested; the glycaemic load is less because not all the digestion occurs in the small intestine.) You can also get the same effect by replacing regular carbs with protein or fat.
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