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Nose clipping lots of food really works Ė it's easier!

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Author Topic: Nose clipping lots of food really works Ė it's easier!  (Read 376105 times)

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Elli

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Re: Nose clipping lots of food really works Ė it's easier!
« Reply #75 on: April 23, 2008, 06:51:43 PM »



Heidi, do foods that give you lots of 'flavors' even nose-clipped still
bring AS to you?

I was having my salad nose-clipped and with all that jalapenos, onions,
and vinegar based dressing, it was very far from blandness. Though
I'm sure it would taste different without a nose-clip, some foods carry
such a diverse and strong flavor that I just simply convince myself that
my body could possibly count it as FFC. Even if it doesn't, at least I'm
avoiding dittoness I guess.

 
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Seth Roberts

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Re: Nose clipping lots of food really works Ė it's easier!
« Reply #76 on: April 23, 2008, 08:17:34 PM »

Thanks, Heidi. I'll mull that over.
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IndianGirl

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Re: Nose clipping lots of food really works Ė it's easier!
« Reply #77 on: April 23, 2008, 11:38:33 PM »

Seth, I remembered two examples.  On occasion I have Ricola cough drops.  I use to like the regular flavor more than the cherry flavor.  Now, since I've been nose clipping, the regular flavor no longer tastes good to me.  The flavor seems strange and I no longer like it.  But the cherry flavor is still recognizable and tastes good. 

I drink hot water with milk and a sweetener with nose clips, as a tea like beverage minus the tea.  One day I tried it without nose clips.  I thought it would be delicious, but I didn't like it at all. The milk tasted really strange to me.  In this example it's as if my body never had the opportunity to form a positive flavor/calorie association with this combination of flavors, even though I love it with the nose clips. 


Heidi,
You seem to have learnt to enjoy nose-clipped foods, so eating nose-clipped foods may be raising your set-point currently.
You do not enjoy some foods without nose-clipping, so eating those foods without nose-clipping may lower your set-point.

Looks like one needs to alternate between periods (weeks) of nose-clipping and not nose-clipping to keep disrupting the flavor-calorie association.
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Seth Roberts

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Re: Nose clipping lots of food really works Ė it's easier!
« Reply #78 on: April 24, 2008, 03:54:54 AM »

Quote
You seem to have learnt to enjoy nose-clipped foods, so eating nose-clipped foods may be raising your set-point currently.

Interesting comment. I think we enjoy salty food so that we'll eat enough salt. I don't think it has to do with figuring out how much fat to store. When it came to learning to enjoy nose-clipped food I think what I learned was how to make stuff that tasted good. Rather than learning some sort of associations. But that's just a guess.
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Heidi 555

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Re: Nose clipping lots of food really works Ė it's easier!
« Reply #79 on: April 24, 2008, 05:53:45 AM »

Quote
Heidi,
You seem to have learnt to enjoy nose-clipped foods, so eating nose-clipped foods may be raising your set-point currently.† You do not enjoy some foods without nose-clipping, so eating those foods without nose-clipping may lower your set-point.

Looks like one needs to alternate between periods (weeks) of nose-clipping and not nose-clipping to keep disrupting the flavor-calorie association.
So far my experience has confirmed Seth's theory.† My set point has remained slightly lowered, and I have continued to gradually lose fat while consuming a good amount of food and feeling satisfied.† I have wondered if alternating nose-clipping with not nose-clipping might work better, but since what I'm doing is working and easy for me I'm just sticking with it for now.

Quote
Interesting comment. I think we enjoy salty food so that we'll eat enough salt. I don't think it has to do with figuring out how much fat to store. When it came to learning to enjoy nose-clipped food I think what I learned was how to make stuff that tasted good. Rather than learning some sort of associations. But that's just a guess.
I enjoy eating.† Period.† I like eating until I'm full and satisfied.† Textures and tastes give pleasure, too.† I think I've learned not to miss flavor so much.† My current favorite treat is to have nose clipped whole grain bread with coconut oil on it.† If I'm craving sweets I put jam on it.† Other times I put salt on it.† The oily saltiness is reminiscent of chips or pretzels.†

My cravings don't seem linked to flavor.† I still crave things even though I can't taste the flavor of them.† Some cravings are healthy, and I seek to satisfy them.† Others are ditto foods which I would like to eliminate.† Healthier substitutions seem to be a possible solution.† My newest candy like treat is a mixture of bee pollen, chopped walnuts, coconut oil, and sweetener or dried fruit.† I've been eating it nose clipped and it's incredibly satisfying.† And probably very caloric! :)† Great texture and a yummy treat or dessert, but it feels healthy.

Quote
Heidi, do foods that give you lots of 'flavors' even nose-clipped still bring AS to you?
Elli, I think all nose clipped foods seem to work.† Perhaps some better than others, but in the long run it doesn't seem to make much difference.†

Nose clipped cheddar cheese was a big ditto food for me.† So I avoid it, but other strong cheeses are not a ditto food and seem fine.† Maybe ditto foods don't matter when you're nose-clipping?† But I want to eliminate ditto habits because it's healthier.
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It took 1 year of nose clipping
to lose 20 pounds (from about 140 to 120)
Dropped from size 8-10 to size 4
I'm 5' 4.5"

Read about my success nose clipping regular food instead of doing oil or sugar: http://boards.sethroberts.net/index.php?topic=5903.

Heidi 555

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Re: Nose clipping lots of food really works Ė it's easier!
« Reply #80 on: May 02, 2008, 06:23:54 AM »


What are some other examples? Were you eating the "chocolate covered candy of a brand that I hadn't had before" with or without noseclips?

It isn't obvious what's going on here. Since you don't experience smells when nose-clipping, it's unlikely you'd unlearn smell-calorie associations. But apparently something has changed...
It happened again.† A friend gave me a dried fruit leather that also had psyllium husk, flaxseed meal, and soy in it.† First I had some nose clipped and it ďtastedĒ fine.† A short while later I tried it without clips and my first thought was that it was bad or rancid, I really didnít like it.† But I smelled it and tasted it again and realized that it wasnít bad, but it just didnít taste right to me. (My friend confirmed that it wasnít bad.) I didnít have (or had lost) a positive flavor association to it.† I expected it to taste good, but it was worse than neutral.†

The friend also gave me some dried fruit leather of unusual flavors that didnít have the added fiber.† I ate those at the same times that I tried the fiber fruit leather.† I expected them to taste really good without the nose clips.† Instead they tasted okay without clips but not any better than with them.† My flavor association was much more neutral than I expected.

When I first started nose clipping, tasting food without nose clips was a heightened experience.† Everything tasted exquisitely good.† My sense of taste seemed especially enhanced (like Iíd taken drugs).† But since then something has changed in my perception of flavors, which is why I keep thinking that Iím losing my flavor associations.† My pleasure rating of the flavors of unclipped food leans more towards neutral most of the time.† Itís gotten easier to nose clip because there isnít much difference anymore.† I think there are still some delectable sumptuous meals that would taste much better without nose clips.† But most of the time when I taste something, I wonder why Iím bothering to taste it.† I might as well nose clip it, because it doesnít really taste that good.

It doesnít take that long to regain a positive flavor association, though.† I got a new brand of herbal cough drops that didnít taste good to me the first time that I tried them.† But I kept trying them (mostly without nose clips) on different occasions, maybe even a week or so a part.† Just had them again and I realized (with some surprise) that they now taste good.† I think Iíve had them without clips about 4-6 times.

Lately my appetite has been huge and it seems like Iíve been eating a lot.† I was worried that perhaps my set point had gone up.† But Iím still slowly losing fat, though not always in the places where I want to lose it.† I now have more ribcage definition.† Ribcage definition is not something I even wanted to begin with.† I prefer meat on my bones.† :)

I keep wondering if Iím going to hit a point where SLD stops working.† Perhaps thereís some bottom set point for my body.† I also feel like Iím eating too much to still be losing weight.† My association with weight loss is that you need to eat less than satiation and fullness in order to lose.† Lately Iíve been indulging myself in lots of nuts, dried fruit, cheeses, dense multigrain bread, etc. Ė high calorie foods.† I donít even want to know the calories Iím consuming.† My body must be in some kind of building phase.†

The nose clipping keeps surprising me.† I never thought Iíd be nose clipping this much for this long.† But it continues to be much easier than I thought.† I donít feel like Iím dieting.† Nose clipping is vastly easier and works much better than any kind of diet and trying to restrict calories.† Perhaps I would lose faster if I didnít eat so much.† But for now Iím curious to see how much I can lose without working hard at it.†

I keep thinking it would be good to write down and post what I eat.† But Iím embarrassed to confess what I eat.† Writing down what I consume feels like some kind of confessional or exposť.† I feel guilty for indulging in eating, especially since Iím supposedly ďdietingĒ.† Without being fully aware of it, I make lots of little judgments about what Iím eating: this is too much, too many calories, too many carbs, too much sugar, etc.† My intention is to move more towards Shangri-la freedom.† Iíll have to see what I can do to let go of my judgments.† Maybe keeping a food log for a short time would help.† Iíve been resistant to keeping one.† †
Logged
It took 1 year of nose clipping
to lose 20 pounds (from about 140 to 120)
Dropped from size 8-10 to size 4
I'm 5' 4.5"

Read about my success nose clipping regular food instead of doing oil or sugar: http://boards.sethroberts.net/index.php?topic=5903.

minuet

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Re: Nose clipping lots of food really works Ė it's easier!
« Reply #81 on: May 02, 2008, 07:33:04 AM »

Hi Heidi,

I liked your post a lot, and find your experiments interesting.† This is a little earlier than I had intended to report on my own experiments, but I wondered what you would think of this:

I have relied strongly on my belief that presenting the body with flavourless calories kept the set point lowered and appetite low, and that noseclipping food was a bonus feature of this.† I know that you felt that the 2-hr window was not necessarily important when noseclipping a lot of food.† However, my natural inclination to question everything just compelled me to experiment.

I have always maintained the 2-hr. flavourless window when noseclipping food, and my appetite has been very low, but decided to try to see if this 2-hr window might be flexible.† I didnít mess with the 2-hr. window around my sacred ELOO, though.

- April 23-26, inclusive: 4 days noseclipping more but ignoring flavour-free window, allowing flavour†
† associations from other food.†

- Results:† appetite rising, feeling restless and peckish, and oddly unsatisfied.

- April 27-30, inclusive: 4 days noseclipping as I had been previously, respecting 2 hr window.

- Results:† feeling calmer, less interested in food.

I have tried this to a lesser degree over the past six months, but probably did not really pay close enough attention to the results, as they always seemed ambiguous.† I love experimenting, but this tells me that the noseclipping effect might be weaker than I thought.† However, I intend to try it again for a longer period.

I must admit that I have wondered if I may have been experiencing that†ďinformational cascadeĒ as one person after another assumes that the rest canít all be wrong.† I still consider noseclipping very valuable in lessening flavour, but am having some doubts as to its effectiveness when done too close to other flavours.

Is this psychosomatic?† †Am I expecting these results, and does it matter?† Perhaps it is just more important to do whatever gives each individual their desired results.
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VeganKitten

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Re: Nose clipping lots of food really works Ė it's easier!
« Reply #82 on: May 02, 2008, 11:57:38 AM »

I've been playing very fast-and-loose with noseclipping/closing as regards % of total calories, and flavor-free timing ... and I have not been experiencing great AS. You've inspired me to approach it with more discipline and see if that makes a difference.
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Heidi 555

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Re: Nose clipping lots of food really works Ė it's easier!
« Reply #83 on: May 02, 2008, 04:14:59 PM »

Darkhorse Ė I am so psyched that you are doing this!† I think it would be great if we utilized this forum to conduct some SLD group experiments.† If Seth started some experiment based threads, I think people would be likely to join in.†(Seth, I think your opinion, expertise, and approval gives something more clout.)

I would join you in this experiment, but Iím nose clipping so much right now that I donít think it would work for me.†

My questions so far are:

1.† How much are you nose clipping?† Iím wondering if the 2-hour window doesnít matter so much for me because I am nose clipping most of what I eat.† Perhaps if one is only nose clipping one meal or a snack, then the 2-hour window becomes much more important.

2.† How are you mixing or allowing flavor associations with other food?† When I intermingle flavors it is either because I donít wait a full hour (maybe I wait 20 or 30 minutes), or I might unclip the last thing that I eat.† I also intermingle only on occasion, not consistently at every meal.

3.† What is the calorie content of the food that you are intermingling.† A lot of my intermingling is intentionally with food or beverages that have little or no calories.† Iím reluctant to intermingle an unclipped high calorie food.

4.† Maybe the flavor free window is important but it doesnít need to be 2 hours in length?† (I would love to see this tested with oil, if anyone is up for experimenting with it.)

5.† Maybe the psychology of the window is more important than we think?† I feel psychologically freer and more at ease without the 2-hour window rule.† Though the reality is that I mostly tend to observe it anyhow.† For someone else the opposite might be true.† They have more confidence if theyíre following the rule faithfully.

6.† It does seem to be commonly accepted belief/experience that nose clipping isnít as strong a method as oil.† I tend to feel this way, and that was a lot of why I initially decided to nose clip so much.† Iím compensating for its perceived weakness by consuming a lot more nose clipped calories.† I would like to see this explored more.† Perhaps once Iím at maintenance Iíll alternate days or weeks of taking oil with nose clipping.† †

Quote
I love experimenting, but this tells me that the nose clipping effect might be weaker than I thought. However, I intend to try it again for a longer period.
I was wondering what made you come to this conclusion?† I was thinking that your results so far showed that nose-clipping worked well, but that observing the 2-hour window was really important.† Maybe it would be good to do some days of no nose-clipping and/or some days of nose clipping everything?† I think the long term cumulative effect of nose clipping has made a helpful difference for me.† Itís hard to quantify that, though.

Thanks so much for experimenting with this and posting about it.† I look forward to hearing about what you decide to try next and how it goes.†

Same for you VeganKitten.† Iíll be curious to hear if the strict window makes a difference or not.†
Logged
It took 1 year of nose clipping
to lose 20 pounds (from about 140 to 120)
Dropped from size 8-10 to size 4
I'm 5' 4.5"

Read about my success nose clipping regular food instead of doing oil or sugar: http://boards.sethroberts.net/index.php?topic=5903.

Heidi 555

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Re: Nose clipping lots of food really works Ė it's easier!
« Reply #84 on: May 03, 2008, 05:34:44 PM »

Darkhorse, I wasn't intending to, but since reading your post I've been totally mixing up nose clipping and eating food unclipped.  Eating something and then putting on nose clips and eating something else, or vice versa.  No window at all.  I did this last night, and then off and on today, and I'm just about to do it again right now, though this time they'll be a 10 minute window.  AS seems good.  I even wonder if it works better for me to mix things up more?  But I've been nose clipping so much for so long, that mixing things up doesn't seem to do much.  It's hard to know if this is unique to me, or part of the method of nose clipping a lot.
Logged
It took 1 year of nose clipping
to lose 20 pounds (from about 140 to 120)
Dropped from size 8-10 to size 4
I'm 5' 4.5"

Read about my success nose clipping regular food instead of doing oil or sugar: http://boards.sethroberts.net/index.php?topic=5903.

minuet

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Re: Nose clipping lots of food really works Ė it's easier!
« Reply #85 on: May 08, 2008, 07:29:47 AM »

Quote from: Maychi on Yesterday at 06:23:15 AM

I've tried noseclipping a large proportion of what I ate for a week while already doing NT and I found that my appetite actually increased.


Heidi, when I saw Maychiís comment, above, in the photo section† it rang a bell. I had wanted to mention a peculiar effect that I had been having, but I couldnít bring myself to say this here because of your own enthusiasm for noseclipping.† †

Specificially, whenever I try noseclipping a lot of food, I soon experience a vague feeling of deprivation of taste, and go into some kind of recovery mode that seems counter-productive.† That is why I mentioned earlier that I feel best when I stay true to the basic theory of SLD: taking ELOO; CFF daily; using noseclipping to take oil or the occasional snack.† This is definitely the way to keep my appetite low, which is where I want it. Otherwise, I get off my stride and become fixated on food, and I had left those days far behind.† I do plan to investigate this further, as it is possible that there could be some ideal amount of noseclippingóas in the correct dose of medicine-- not too much, nor too little, that is most effective.†
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Heidi 555

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Re: Nose clipping lots of food really works Ė it's easier!
« Reply #86 on: May 08, 2008, 10:52:57 AM »

Quote
I had wanted to mention a peculiar effect that I had been having, but I couldnít bring myself to say this here because of your own enthusiasm for noseclipping.
Don't feel bad about this.  My enthusiasm is because it works amazingly well for me.  The only thing that would dampen my enthusiasm is if it stopped working.  Finding out it works differently for others just brings more knowledge to the data pool.  Maybe nose clipping a lot HAS increased my appetite.  That might very well be a side effect.  I don't mine if it has, because I'm still continuing to lose weight.  If I can eat more and still lose weight, it still sounds like a good deal to me.  I also wonder if it takes awhile for the body to adapt to nose clipping.  With each new input I always have more questions than answers.
Logged
It took 1 year of nose clipping
to lose 20 pounds (from about 140 to 120)
Dropped from size 8-10 to size 4
I'm 5' 4.5"

Read about my success nose clipping regular food instead of doing oil or sugar: http://boards.sethroberts.net/index.php?topic=5903.

Heidi 555

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Re: Nose clipping lots of food really works Ė it's easier!
« Reply #87 on: June 01, 2008, 04:57:01 AM »

Time for another update.† For awhile now Iíve wanted to change my weight loss goal and ticker to 118 pounds.† Today I finally got up the nerve to do it.† 118 pounds is twice my original goal of 128 pounds and psychologically a big stretch for me.† I spent the last decades of my life longing to weigh in the 120ís.† My new yearís goal for this year was to get under 130 pounds and stay there.† Itís unbelievable to me that Iím now revising that goal to get under 120 pounds.† Before SLD this wasnít even in the realm of possibility for myself.† I have continued to be very happy that I weigh in the 120s.

Nose clipping continues to be easy for me.† Lately, Iíve had more unclipped meals.† Itís been nice to enjoy the flavors of delicious meals that other people have cooked.† It doesnít seem to matter that Iíve varied the amount of nose clipping.† Iíve also had times when Iíve really messed with the nose clipping, such as putting them on and off over the course of one meal.† Messing with the timing, and putting clips on and off in close succession, doesnít seem to matter.† I feel a renewed sense of freedom with nose clipping.† (However, please note: I do not recommend this to someone just starting out.† Iíve been nose clipping a very high percentage of calories for a long time, which is probably why I donít notice much difference when I mess with things.† Iíd advise someone new to start with the smallest amount of flavorless calories that works for them.† This leaves lots of room to increase flavorless calories when AS lessens.† Also, it's probably best to observe the 2 hour window in the beginning.)

Anyone following my posts knows that Iíve been having hormonal issues.† Iíve had hormonal health problems all my life, so itís no surprise that Iím finding the perimenopausal transition to be challenging.† I feel like my hormones are messed up, but Iím also reminding myself that itís normal for my age.† Iíve been researching and studying menopause.† Taking birth control pills or synthetic hormones does not feel right for me.† So for now Iíll continue to tough it out.† Anyhow, my last TOM was 2 weeks late and extra heavy.† My PMS cravings were off the charts.†

But SLD proved itself to be a reliable support.† I could only overeat so much before getting very full.† I regularly ate until I felt uncomfortably full.† I consumed a lot of calories.† I had 4 days in a row where I nose clipped a cup of heavy cream with maple syrup each day.† Very decadent!† And that was in addition to meals and everything else I was eating.† But amazingly enough, I did not gain weight.† I did not gain weight!   Well, I did gain lots of bloat.  For over a month I carried about 3 extra pounds of water.  Itís a hell of a lot easier to be bloated when you weigh in your 120ís.  But I am happy that I no longer look and feel pregnant, and can once again fit comfortably into my "skinny teenage jeans".  Itís still a thrill to buy hand me down clothes from teenagers.   

My weight is currently down a pound from what it was pre-bloat.  I figure it was from all the blood that I just donated.  However, I donated to the sewer, instead of more nobly to the Red Cross. :D  When making my donation, I continually reminded myself of Karkyís experience: giving blood in combination with SLD leads to weight loss.  http://boards.sethroberts.net/index.php?topic=5831.0

This forum continues to be a place of support for me.  Shovelqueenís exercise challenge thread has been especially helpful.  I was sad to see that darkhorse had unregistered.  (Her guest name is now minuet.)   Her posts and success had been inspirational to me.  I have been especially grateful for the people who told me that my SLD experience has been inspirational and helpful to them.  Those posts buoyed my spirit during this challenging time.  Thanks everyone.  There's a nice feeling of going through this SLD experiment together.
Logged
It took 1 year of nose clipping
to lose 20 pounds (from about 140 to 120)
Dropped from size 8-10 to size 4
I'm 5' 4.5"

Read about my success nose clipping regular food instead of doing oil or sugar: http://boards.sethroberts.net/index.php?topic=5903.

shovelqueen

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Re: Nose clipping lots of food really works Ė it's easier!
« Reply #88 on: June 01, 2008, 05:29:57 AM »

And you are a huge contributor to this forum and why it is such a nice place to hang out! :D

Your perseverence to the noseclipping idea had greatly expanded the whole SLD body of knowledge, and given many a new avenue to try for getting flavourless calories.  You deserve a "Super Lab Rat" award! :lol:
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"Strength, balance, joy!"

Heidi 555

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Re: Nose clipping lots of food really works Ė it's easier!
« Reply #89 on: June 01, 2008, 12:00:25 PM »

Thanks shovelqueen.  These days I feel like life is one big experiment.  I'm just trying to stay afloat.  Occasionally drowning and sometimes thriving and swimming. 

Ditto for you on the huge contributor to the forum.  I (and most people here) really value and respect your perspective and input.
Logged
It took 1 year of nose clipping
to lose 20 pounds (from about 140 to 120)
Dropped from size 8-10 to size 4
I'm 5' 4.5"

Read about my success nose clipping regular food instead of doing oil or sugar: http://boards.sethroberts.net/index.php?topic=5903.
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