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[Pinkmug]

LOL Karky! You-nice! 

Heidi, from many years since age 26 when too much sun finally took its toll I tried many products and treatments. Cheap, expensive, doctor prescribed, OTCs, pills, creams, supplements ... nothing totally eliminated my rosacea. On the forum I learnt the only definitive treatment is laser, or pulsed light. But I don't want to go that avenue. Then, some things work for some, some for others. As you know by now the tough way, there are 2 components to rosacea, the diffuse redness and the papules & pustules. The latter are exacerbations, and may be triggered by a miriad factors. I know pretty well what causes mine, and I'm sure you know your triggers too. The most common triggers for p&p are: certain foods and  certain meds, stress, and the most common triggers for redness flare-ups are heat, hot foods, wine, foods and meds again.. etc etc. When you know your triggers you can devise a way of avoiding them. That's what I do to have my rosacea under control as I said. The rest is a neutral moisturizer, and foundation. After years of wasting money on high-end, "natural", "calming", etc., moisturizers I found out an unexpensive Nivea one that is perfect for me (DNAge) and foundations the same (Maybelline and Nivea, and Dermablend when the going gets tough). When I get p&p's, Metrogel from the pharmacy works good for me. Just like you, my overweight became more of a problem than my redness, so I haven't been much to that forum, but if you want you can take a look - it's a very helpful forum and I learnt a lot there - http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/rosacea-support/  The moderator, Aurelia, is a wonderful wonderful person!

As to nicks... I have so many. Older relatives call me Nininha, one or two call me Ninita, my mom, siblings, husband, older coworkers call me Nini, the rest of the world calls me Eunice, but I've been also called Nina, Nikaruka and Ninotchka. My commonest current nickname is therefore Nini, I should say.

OK, i said bad news because AS was eluding me. And yesterday I said I'd still wait a couple days but I didn't - I added a T raw oats to the NCP this morning. And the fact is, I'm less hungry at this time -almost 4 hours after the smoothie - than on the previous days without oats. Ended up not NCing more foods yesterday, so the experiment is stalled. Let's see how it goes today 

[Heidi 555]

Pinkmug, thanks for the rosacea tips and link.  The forum had some good links.  I haven't tried taking aspirin for rosacea, which I read about on one of the links.  But I think I need to wait until I get more settled into SLD.  Otherwise too many variables!  Unfortunately, most of my triggers are unavoidable like cold and wind (windy cold is the absolute worst), sun and heat (wear a hat even when swimming - lol), exercise....  I can't avoid going outside, and fresh air and exercise is good for me.  sigh.

Love your nicknames -- very endearing!

Glad your moving back towards appetite suppression.  Mine has been very erratic, which I'll post about next.

[Heidi 555]

I think that nose clipping ditto foods is not working.  My appetite suppression is really erratic and unpredictable.  Also, I've had more food cravings than usual.  Even nose clipping strong ditto foods seems to have a stimulating effect in some way.  I think the conditioning involves more than just the flavor.  Elements that make me crave those foods are still there even when nose clipped. 

I'm thinking that it's most important for me to establish regular and consistent AS.  That good AS really helps eliminate cravings.  Seems like nose clipping something bland and the same thing everyday, at the same time, might be important.  So, after today -- Happy Thank Turkey Day for all you Americans! -- I'll modify and refine my approach once again. 

The good news is that each time SLD doesn't work for me, it stimulates more questions and ideas.  I have some new ideas about conditioning AS that I'll write about in a new thread.

[TalkingRat]

Heidi, sorry to hear the NC-ditto experiment isn't working.   It may not enhance AS, but I still plan to try it next time I'm overeating one particular food.  Nothing says 'not really hungry' like eating noseclipped.  :lol: 

[Heidi 555]

TalkingRat -- I'm glad you're going to try it.  I still think the idea has potential, it's just that so far the results for me are inconsistent.  I might go back to it, once I established better and more consistent AS with something bland and nonstimulating. Also, if you're going to binge anyhow, its way better to binge while nose clipped!  I just hope to eliminate the need for binging to begin with.

[TalkingRat]

Heidi, fortunately overeating with SLD is different.  Unlike pre-SLD 'can't eat one' nights, there is no residual craving the day after.  :lol:   

I had unstable AS after the first five weeks of SLD.  That meant for lots of plateaus, but even irregular AS is a help, it just made for a wild ride.  When you unclip, do you get smells coming back through your nose on the first exhale?   I'm wondering if that 'aftersmell' only happens to a small portion of us.  What's making me think about this is the NC cottage cheese enthusiasts, describing CC as bland.  To me, CC has a strong tongue bite, and what I taste unclipped as 'flavor' is not its nose smell, it's the 'aftersmell.'  Same with onions, the taste is more in the fumes, what comes up the back of my nose, rather than the front nose smell.  Oatmeal also has a different aftersmell, but chicken's is like its noseclipped taste, so I don't get any added sensation when I unclip.

[Heidi 555]

Yes TalkingRat, I definitely feel like I'm on a roller coaster or wild ride, but I'm grateful for any AS that I get.  I think I got the aftersmell that you describe, with tomato sauce.  I haven't tried cottage cheese yet, but plan to soon.  There are so many variables that it's hard to know what causes what.  I wonder about having texture calorie associations because the texture of cereal is so satisfying to me, even when I eat it nose clipped.  Also, the umami taste of cheese and tomato sauce is very strong and gratifying even through the nose clips.  I know that "technically" that shouldn't matter, but if you've been conditioned to really crave that food, then maybe it does.  I notice that sweet tastes consistently the same to me when nose clipping different sweet foods.  But the umami taste seems to be different with different foods.

Do you nose clip lots of different foods, or to you just regularly noseclip a few.  I'm thinking that it would be helpful for me to do a bland combo of protein and oil that doesn't have much residual after smell.  And maybe add more things once I got something working.  I've been nose clipping lots of different foods, and wondering if that is making for the inconsistency.  Or maybe appetite suppression will just be inconsistent for me no matter what I do and I'll stop trying to figure it out.  Has anything worked consistently for you, or has AS been unstable regardless of what you try?

 

[TalkingRat]

I've wondered about texture, I certainly know cottage cheese and oatmeal by texture.  I know regular cheese, cream, coconut oil, hamburger, even chicken  by mouthfeel.   I did some experimenting back when the noseclip thread was popular last year.  I got a really strong satiety effect, with calorie loaded smoothies, but hunger seemed to come back sooner with carbs in my smoothie.  I tried protein powder plain, but the taste was identifiable through noseclips, and not very appealing.  I found out things like 80 nonfat milk calories made me fuller than 200 yogurt calories.  It's hard to eat regular food with noseclips and I got sick of smoothies, lol.  After my failed experiment with oil in my noseclipped smoothie, I kept my SLD oils completely separate.  That way, at least I had some AS.  Interesting thought about taste difference.  SW and fructose do  not have the same sweet taste, although I should try them NC'd to see if that holds.   I get differences in what I call tongue tang, which is related to antioxidant value of foods.  I get a protein bite with chicken, cottage cheese, yogurt, protein powder. 

I couldn't say if one food worked better noseclipped than another, it just seemed they did not work as well as ELOO.  Once you have AS, it's hard to assess change, because of the buildup effect.  I noticed differences in satiety, and sometimes in hunger control, but I didn't notice one thing working better, it was more I noticed when AS was gone.  With bouncing weight patterns, it's even harder.  It is normal for me to vary 2-3 lbs in a week (wakeup weight) even when my weight is stable.  When it starts a two week spiking cycle, it looks out of control.  This time, I have been bouncing within a narrow range since my first week's big loss, not directly tied to carbs or calories or even appetite.  It's not a 3 lb pop overnight or a steady upward climb, and the AS is holding.  I'm assuming my setpoint is slowly working its way down after my 6 lb drop, and it will take a few weeks of bouncing.  Some people here lose in stairstep fashion, lose 1-2 lbs, perfectly flat for a couple weeks, lose 1-2 more.  If only.   :?   

[Heidi 555]

TalkingRat, I love the specificness of your observations.

I found out things like 80 nonfat milk calories made me fuller than 200 yogurt calories.

That is fascinating!  Was the yogurt nonfat?  Does it work for you to regular nose clip nonfat milk?  Today I'm going to try nonfat yogurt.  I might go get some nonfat milk.  I really don't like nonfat dairy and don't usually eat it.

I get differences in what I call tongue tang, which is related to antioxidant value of foods.  I get a protein bite with chicken, cottage cheese, yogurt, protein powder. 

That is really interesting, too.  With what foods do you get noticeable tongue tangs?  I have this vegetable and fruit powder that gives me the most delicious tang both with and without noseclips.  I love it.  Is that what you mean?  I noted it as the sour taste.  Dried apricots have a nice sour taste when nose clipped.

I'll have to pay attention to see if I get a protein bites. 

This time, I have been bouncing within a narrow range since my first week's big loss, not directly tied to carbs or calories or even appetite.  It's not a 3 lb pop overnight or a steady upward climb, and the AS is holding.

Congrats on the first week's big loss and I hope the AS holds steady as a rock.

[TalkingRat]

Haha, Heidi, that level of observation can be dangerous.  But here's what else I can say about it, it was a year ago, lol.  The yogurt was Tillamook vanilla lowfat, and I blamed the high fructose corn syrup (HFCS), which seems to be in everything these days   The kind without HFCS is more expensive, and nobody else will eat it, so I haven't kept yogurt around much lately.  Yogurt has more carbs than cottage cheese, but next time I buy it, I'll do the experiment over.  Probably not nonfat, though, yogurt needs a little butterfat or it loses its creamy quality and tastes acidic.

The tongue tang seems to be with foods labeled antioxidants.  Green tea, coffee, rhubarb, berries, plums, cinnamon are others.  I mulled that over in my progress report last year.  I was wondering how foods labeled flavenoids and antioxidants were connected. Olive oil being in that category, too.  It wakes up a lengthwise band of tongue that runs on either side of center, and is still there NC'd.  If I look in the mirror, it's raised and redder after I eat something that has 'tang.'   It's not quite the same location as where sour is.  It and the tip are the parts of my tongue that are sensitive to 'too hot.'   Maybe there's citric acid in your veg/fruit powder?  I would think that would do it, but I'm citrus sensitive so notice other small signs of citrus.  The protein sensation is in a similar area, but I get the sense of a wide oval patch on each side, instead of the long thin band.  That's about all the food reflection I can deal with today.  I don't remember anybody else ever talking about food sensations this way. :lol:

Thanks for the AS wishes, although it won't stop my spikes.  I jumped 2 pounds from yesterday, and I didn't have a traditional turkey dinner.  But I did have pie, and also two excedrin, both things associated with weight gain. 

[Heidi 555]

TalkingRat,

I’m impressed with your powers of observation and recall.  What do you do/did you do for work?  Anything that utilized those skills?  You must have some good planets in Virgo. 

You’ve inspired me to try to pay attention to my tongue and where I’m tasting things, especially with nose clipped foods.  It’s amazing how food sensations we take for granted are much more complex than we realize.

How did you get your user name?  All people remind my husband of some kind of animal.  He sometimes refers to himself as ratso or squirrel-y.  He calls me a hamster.  He use to have hamsters as a kid and thinks it’s really endearing.  I identify with otters or porpoises.  Conversely he personifies animals.  Our cat Billy, is more kid than cat.  Billy could really use SLD, but I can’t figure out how to adapt it for him. 

[Heidi 555]

But I did have pie, and also two excedrin, both things associated with weight gain. 

TalkingRat, do you also have things associated with weight loss?  I've been thinking that would be a good thing.  I don't think my associations are as clear and specific as yours, though.  It's like I'm trying to pay more attention and be more aware so that I can discover them.

[TalkingRat]

Heidi, the TalkingRat name is for here.  We tweak and experiment, we are our own lab rats, with the disputable benefit that we talk.  :wink:

Other than great AS, the things I associate with weight loss are short term.  My WW friends had tricks they used the day before weigh-in, sometimes things that affected their weight that hour.  Fiber and ACV can help with insulin response, and green tea can help with fluid retention.  I don't consistently use them, so they are temporary effects.  What has worked somewhat for me is to balance carbs, and avoid processed foods with HFCS and palm oil, because those things affect my eating.  I leave the room when someone microwaves a snack with palm oil in it.  Much of cravings control is planning -- having in mind what I will eat if I end up thinking I need something. Even healthy food as a snack isn't always the best calorie choice.  Like last night, I had more salmon, but I could have had fewer calories, SLD calories, with SW.  Omega3 puts me in a good mood, at least. :mrgreen:

When my weight was 'stable' for years, I was rarely within .5 lb of yesterday's weight, and have more 2-3 lb overnight changes than most people.  With SLD,  I stay the same weight for 2-3 days (a surprise!) before shifting gears to an upward cycle, and I go through 2-3 cycles of up/down before drifting a bit lower on the last 'down.'   I can climb 4-5 lbs  in 2 days, or take a week to get there slowly. The process of weight loss takes 2-3 weeks of bouncing.  Weight tricks can make the climb more gradual, but it doesn't change the pattern, just the timing.  AS is still the key. 

[Heidi 555]

TalkingRat,  you must be really patient to weather all those ups and downs.  I admire your dedication and persistence. 

I keep thinking it would be helpful to cultivate really strong weight loss associations.  We all have too many weight gain associations.

I finally had some good AS today.  Mostly my AS has been mild.  Not sure if it means anything yet or not.  I posted about it on the other (Conditioning Appetite Suppression) thread.

Hope things keep going down for you.

  AS is still the key. 

  that's for sure!

[Pinkmug]

Well, like I said in the other thread, I suspect that noseclipping  gives me AS for the simple reason it's hard work! Chewing and swallowing while noseclipped is hard enough to motivate me to not eat. Now if I could do that often, but in my mind NC has become equal to sacrifice!! I hate sacrifice!!  :x