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Why I hate soccer - be forewarned. Not for the easily offended.

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Author Topic: Why I hate soccer - be forewarned. Not for the easily offended.  (Read 40913 times)

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falconcy

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Re: Why I hate soccer - be forewarned. Not for the easily offended.
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2007, 09:12:03 AM »



[Ducks and covers]



Take your pick ;-)


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mpq

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Re: Why I hate soccer - be forewarned. Not for the easily offended.
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2007, 09:49:55 AM »

Been reading over the recent posts here. An honest question, with no particular country in mind. We talk about the oil crises. But why is the price of gasoline so much higher in Europe than in the US?
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falconcy

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Re: Why I hate soccer - be forewarned. Not for the easily offended.
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2007, 10:21:11 AM »

Combination of two things, one is the level of taxation on the gas over here. We pay VAT (like a sales tax) and also we pay like an import (excise) duty. Also take on board that crude pricing is in dollars, whether we like it or not, we are all paying the price of the "war on terror" - the money to pay for it has to come from somewhere, gas prices are a convenient way of raising funds - were it not for a really low dollar, we would be totally firked.
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djdawg

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Re: Why I hate soccer - be forewarned. Not for the easily offended.
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2007, 11:23:57 AM »

Um ... seen your exchange rate today? Heard anything about that subprime loan market collapse? Foreclosures up 500%? Understand why China has been dumping US dollars since March? Heard Merrill Lynch is projecting oil over $100/barrell in the next few months? How about the $120 trillion in US debt (including derivatives ...)? US Comptroller said yesterday hostile foreign powers hold so much US debt the whole country is their bitch ... that doesn't ring a bell? Amazon in its 2nd year of drought - know what happens if that goes one more year?

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!† I should just go kill myself right now!† The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!!!!!† †:twisted:

Uh, all markets have corrections.† Many people are learning the hard way what it means to get in over your head, which they did during this fantastic economy due to low interest rates.† The most wonderful thing about Americans is that we are most excellent at bouncing back from our mistakes and learning from them.† I have no doubt that our economy will get through this, as it has past corrections, and come out even stronger and better as a result.† Plus, there are so many strong sectors right now that are cancelling out the subprime mortgage woes and high gas prices.† It's not uncommon for some sectors to perform badly while other sectors are performing at thier best.† Unemployment is still very low here and the economy is still booming.† I even saw where the IRS took in record income the first quarter of this year (depsite all of Bush's tax cuts which all the liberals criticized...now if we can just get the idiot to cut spending too!)† And our federal deficit actually decreased last quarter.

And don't you worry, even if we needed to be bailed out from all the turmoil you claim that we're in, rest assured we would never ask any other countries or international organizations for their help the way they ALWAYS ask for ours.† We know how to take care of ourselves, so you needn't worry or criticize.

And you would think you (and others who depend on currency other than the dollar) would appreciate the current exchange rate!† What better time to take a vacation to Maui or Alaska and do some shopping?

And finally, I wouldn't be using China as an example of anything having to do with economics.† There is so much corrpution involved in that country in every aspect, not just financial, that I wouldn't be surprised if you see them have a major market correction withiun the next 6-12 months.† (Just look at the obvious corrpution in their food industry alone.)† Communism doesn't work, in case you failed to notice.† Capitalism, when allowed to thrive, will take care of its mistakes and problems in due time.

thanks Mac!  You said this so much better then I ever could....
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K-Mac

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Re: Why I hate soccer - be forewarned. Not for the easily offended.
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2007, 01:36:06 PM »

OK, OK, everybody, deep breaths. Note subject line of thread. No, not the "easily offended" part, the first four words. If you would like to start a new thread talking about the state of the economy, or indeed anything else not having to do with why you hate soccer, please change the subject line.

Now, please take a look at this thread on "Why are people who post here so well-behaved?" http://boards.sethroberts.net/index.php?topic=2170.0

I am still only a Newbie, and this discussion seems to be between a Jr. Member and a Full Member, but I would request that we get back to soccer. There are numerous other places where you could have this discussion.

[Ducks and covers]



I didn't realize I said anything offensive.  I merely defend my country when, and it's frequent around here, attacked.
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K-Mac

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Re: Why I hate soccer - be forewarned. Not for the easily offended.
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2007, 01:36:42 PM »



[Ducks and covers]



Take your pick ;-)




Crackin' me up!   :lol:  Are those made out of tin foil?
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falconcy

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Re: Why I hate soccer - be forewarned. Not for the easily offended.
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2007, 01:41:12 PM »

Yup!
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K-Mac

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Re: Why I hate soccer - be forewarned. Not for the easily offended.
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2007, 01:43:34 PM »

Been reading over the recent posts here. An honest question, with no particular country in mind. We talk about the oil crises. But why is the price of gasoline so much higher in Europe than in the US?


I'm not certain, but I would guess that other countries tax the crap out of their citizens for gas even more than our government does. †Governments have the highest profit margins from gasoline...more than any oil company or refinery. †(Because they have no overhead...it's all profit, and it's all theft.)

From JB Williams: Who is getting rich at the gas pumps?

"For starters, many average Americans who hold stock in the oil companies, either directly or indirectly through
their 410k or mutual fund. But the fact is, the gross profit margin for a gallon of gas in America today, is what it has
always been, on average, .08 cents per gallon, (2.5% at $3.00 per gallon). Though retail gas prices fluctuate with
crude prices and supply vs. demand, the gross profit margin per gallon remains roughly the same at all times. (No
evidence of price gouging here.)

However the federal government profits approximately .59 cents per gallon through gasoline taxes, 7 Ĺ times or
750% that of the oil producers themselves and 20% of the price at the pumps. Pay attention here, Washington
liberals are attacking oil companies for their 2.5% gross profit margin, while Washington is profiting 20% per
gallon. Democrats answer? Tax some more?

If oil companies cut their profit margins by 50%, it would drop the price of a gallon of gas by only .04 cents per
gallon. If Washington law makers cut their take by 50%, gasoline would cost .30 cents per gallon less. If the federal
government didnít tax gasoline at all, the price per gallon at the pumps would be $2.40 per gallon instead of $3.00
per gallon and the oil companies would still be at a respectable 2.5% gross profit margin. Who is gouging whom?"
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ZM

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Re: Why I hate soccer - be forewarned. Not for the easily offended.
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2007, 08:06:54 PM »

Quote
I didn't realize I said anything offensive.† I merely defend my country when, and it's frequent around here, attacked.

I didn't take offense at anything you said, K-Mac. Later today I'll put together a reply.

I hasten to add, however, I have not and would never attack America. I'm an American and love my country just as you do. If you question that, flax oil or peak oil, them's fightin' words.

Nevertheless it's more than a stretch to say America's doing better than "in years". We face fundamental systemic flaws that have been amplified but certainly not caused by the woebegone policies of the present administration.

Simply put, America needs to work for a living. We need to create something of value to the rest of the world, brand it, market it, and sell it. Our country has been living on credit for so long, we've come to think of ourselves as the entitled masters of the world. We're not.

We're no different from any other nation on this planet - we have to pay our bills, fuel our cars, and take care of our children. The fact that we face profound challenges on all these fronts is nothing to be embarrassed about. It's something to be dealt with rationally.

So long as we walk around wearing "I'm with Stupid" T-shirts, we're simply not taking care of business. And it is biting us. The longer we thump our chests and act like apes internationally, the worse it's going to bite us.

It's time for America to stop living at home "rent free" with its folks, get an education, and think for a living. Because there's nothing else we have to sell to anyone but our smarts and the repo man is outside hooking up our Buick.

Oh, and for falconcy, I look good in a fez.
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anacara

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Re: Why I hate soccer - be forewarned. Not for the easily offended.
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2007, 12:24:29 AM »

And the thing is, this is an international forum.  I don't understand why anyone would trouble to post a statement like "the U.S. economy is doing the best that it has in years!!!" in the first place.  The US is an extremely wealthy country (albeit with the wealth most inequitably distributed).  I would be much more interested and glad to hear that the economy of some poverty stricken African country where people are lucky to live in shacks, is "doing great".
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K-Mac

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Re: Why I hate soccer - be forewarned. Not for the easily offended.
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2007, 08:34:18 AM »

The US is an extremely wealthy country (albeit with the wealth most inequitably distributed).† I would be much more interested and glad to hear that the economy of some poverty stricken African country where people are lucky to live in shacks, is "doing great".

1.) the middle class here is huge and doing quite well, and wealth is distributed to those who seek it and work for it (less Paris Hilton)  :lol:
2.) the poor in this country live better than the poor in any other country, they are fed, they are clothed, they receive healthcare...and if they're not, then they're choosing not to
3.) if you are willing to work in this country, you will succeed.  period.  if you are lazy, no one has pity for you, if you have a disability or are infirm, there are a million charities run by both government and private organizations that will help you.  no other peoples are as charitable as Americans and no other country gives away as much of its taxpayers hard-earned dollars as we do
4.) maybe those african nations should fight for their freedoms the way that we did/do.  once they get the tyrannical dictators out of control, they have the power to change their own nations....or are you suggesting the US start additional "nation building" wars?  because you guys already hate us for that too and frankly, I'm sick of wasting my money on countries that insist on letting their dictators steal our aid


Nevertheless it's more than a stretch to say America's doing better than "in years". We face fundamental systemic flaws that have been amplified but certainly not caused by the woebegone policies of the present administration.

Simply put, America needs to work for a living. We need to create something of value to the rest of the world, brand it, market it, and sell it. Our country has been living on credit for so long, we've come to think of ourselves as the entitled masters of the world. We're not.

We're no different from any other nation on this planet - we have to pay our bills, fuel our cars, and take care of our children. The fact that we face profound challenges on all these fronts is nothing to be embarrassed about. It's something to be dealt with rationally.

So long as we walk around wearing "I'm with Stupid" T-shirts, we're simply not taking care of business. And it is biting us. The longer we thump our chests and act like apes internationally, the worse it's going to bite us.

It's time for America to stop living at home "rent free" with its folks, get an education, and think for a living. Because there's nothing else we have to sell to anyone but our smarts and the repo man is outside hooking up our Buick.

1.) I agree that the current administration has been a very disappointing failure; however, I completely disagree with you that the economy here is not the best it's been since Sept 11th.  Just look at the stock market and how it has rebounded.  As I said before, yes, certain sectors are suffering, but many more are booming.  And that's quite typical of any markets.
2.) I wud'nt kno aneething bout wurkin'  Me just dumb Amaricun.  Such an ignorant comment.  You know what America imports and exports?  Brains!  Why do you think the worlds best and brightest come here/stay here to work and study?  Why do you suppose college campuses are growing faster than they can keep up with?  Why do you suppose more people apply for college than they have room for?  We don't need all the stinkin' blue collar jobs anymore because our society is educated and we are in the business of brains.  We think; therefore, we prosper.  But if you want to give up your brain, don the blue collar and join a ridiculous union (and help kill off what's left of the American automakers) go right ahead.  I'll keep my nice, air conditioned office, desk job as a financial planner and help make a real difference in our clients' lives.  (Our clients who, by the way, are educated, working, earning money, not living on credit and planning for their retirements.  Oh yeah, and saving up for their "I'm With Stupid" t-shirts.)

"The American businessmen, as a class, have demonstrated the greatest productive genius and the most spectacular achievements ever recorded in the economic history of mankind. What reward did they receive from our culture and its intellectuals? The position of a hated, persecuted minority. The position of a scapegoat for the evils of the bureaucrats." 

"Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think."

"Upper classes are a nation's past; the middle class is its future."

"If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would choose . . . the fact that they were the people who created the phrase "to make money." No other language or nation had ever used these words before. . . . Americans were the first to understand that wealth has to be created."

All Ayn Rand quotes.  If you don't know who she is, where she came from, or what she stands for, I highly recommend you educate yourself.

And that's it, I'm done.  Post all the American hating stuff you want.  It's obvious my arguments are futile and my time and life are worth more than this.  Go on with your statism, high taxes and altruistic lifestyles.  See where it gets you and your children.  I wish you the best.  You'll be needing it.

Now does anyone want to talk about sports?  I thought that was the topic here.
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ZM

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Why I hate poverty - be forewarned. Not for the easily offended.
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2007, 01:35:29 PM »

Quote
The US is an extremely wealthy country (albeit with the wealth most inequitably distributed).† I would be much more interested and glad to hear that the economy of some poverty stricken African country where people are lucky to live in shacks, is "doing great".

You might dig out an early 90s film by Godfrey Reggio, "Powaqatsi", if you'd like to see people living in shacks and "doing great". And its precursor "Koyaanisqatsi" to see people living in hypnosis and "being wealthy".

One of the less charming features of America is a delusion that the rest of the world are either cavemen or aliens from another planet. They're not. They're just regular people, same as you, me, or K-mac, living regular lives. They may dress differently and they may be more or less wealthy than the average American. There is no particular rule to it. In my travels I've seen more and worse poverty in America than in Europe or Oceania.

But I am parochial. I haven't visited Asia or Africa I reserve judgement on them. The one thing I can say from having visited and lived in more than one place is that you really don't know much about anywhere until you've spent a few years there. And both Asia and Africa are big places - find yourself a dymaxion map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dymaxion_map_unfolded-no-ocean.png) - Sub-Saharan Africa alone is many times the size of the USA. It's hard to generalize at all about so many peoples.

The only thing I can really say about the world is that everywhere I've ever been is nothing at all like the way it's represented in the news.

Quote
1.) the middle class here is huge and doing quite well, and wealth is distributed to those who seek it and work for it (less Paris Hilton)

Almost every American calls themselves "middle class" no matter what their standard of living. But look at the "made in" labels on all the junk in your 3-car garage. Skilled jobs have fled America en masse and foreign tertiary institutions are vastly out-competing American ones. Job growth has been almost exclusively in the soda-jerk sectors. CEO pay is 250 times average pay. Everyone is middle class ... but some are a lot more "middle" than others ... and that trend is only accelerating.

The reason for the acceleration is that we're not spending money on infrastructure. I'm not talking about health care, though of course that's made us an international laughing stock with Moore's latest picture. I mean roads, schools, ports, and energy infrastructure - http://www.asce.org/reportcard/2005/index.cfm . The fundamentals of our civilization are going to wrack and ruin while we sit and burble about how nice it is to have low taxes. America is a machine and machines need maintenance. There's no magic pixie dust to throw at infrastructure - it takes dollars to maintain it to a civilized standard. And no "business stimulus" is going to fix these problems. They're systemic.
 
Quote
2.) the poor in this country live better than the poor in any other country, they are fed, they are clothed, they receive healthcare...and if they're not, then they're choosing not to

Um ... any other country? Got figures to back that up? In my reading (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003589318_poverty26.html) and in my direct experience the poor in America are considerably poorer than in other countries. They live in worse environments with worse social support and worse opportunities.

I'm not surprised that an affluent American is blind to this. American broadcast media affirm daily that someone's poverty is their own fault, that wealth somehow magically corresponds with virtuous living and moral fibre, and that being American means you're guaranteed opportunities. I believed all that myself before moving to America. In 7 years the scales fell from my eyes. Oh, I did fine - America is the land of opportunity if you're a technically educated white man. But what I saw on the streets was arrogance, intolerance, and ruthlessness toward the poor. Elsewhere in the world the poor are pitied and aided - they're regarded as symptoms of social failure. In America they are despised and imprisoned - they're an embarrassment, something to shun. And so their numbers grow ...

We've got the largest prison population in the world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_prison_population#Population_statistics) - our country holds 25% of the entire world's encarcerated population - many more than in China or Russia. More than 1% of our population in jail, and we have to do work to clothe, feed and shelter them while they sit and stink and suffer. The prime reasons they're there are their poverty and our stupidity.

Quote
3.) if you are willing to work in this country, you will succeed.† period.† if you are lazy, no one has pity for you, if you have a disability or are infirm, there are a million charities run by both government and private organizations that will help you.† no other peoples are as charitable as Americans and no other country gives away as much of its taxpayers hard-earned dollars as we do

Americans are charitable and American philanthropy is a marvel. But this has nothing to do with your thesis. American poverty is a growing quagmire. As the subprime loans collapse continues the number of struggling disenfranchised Americans can only grow. Your assertion that these people are "lazy" would not be worthy of comment if it were not such a popular American delusion. The poor in America have now way up and no way out - they can't obtain the educations needed to improve their situation because our schools are in squalor. They can't get a decent wage no matter how hard they work because there is no union movement. Since our public infrastructure is in a shambles many of them can't even transport themselves to the poor job opportunities that are open to them. Their environments are heavily polluted, congested, noisy, and dangerous. Plus they're generally afflicted with the diseases of poverty - not the least of which is the ignorance and delusion generated by the electronic drug of broadcast television.

In short these people are trapped and they have to work as hard as they can just to live. If you don't believe that, and you can't shift yourself to google the subject, just go meet a few of them. Seriously, go down to your local soup kitchen and just chat for a while. You won't hear anything too surprising about their problems and prospects. But you won't find anyone "lazy".

Quote
4.) maybe those african nations should fight for their freedoms the way that we did/do.† once they get the tyrannical dictators out of control, they have the power to change their own nations....or are you suggesting the US start additional "nation building" wars?† because you guys already hate us for that too and frankly, I'm sick of wasting my money on countries that insist on letting their dictators steal our aid

Um, you might want to read a bit more on this. We are most philanthropic to foreign dictators. Have been for generations. America loves dictators! Not so much in Africa - we prefer them in the Middle East and South America. We generally don't invest in nations with working social systems because, hey, how the hell can we make a buck off them?

As for "nation building" wars, that's the conservative agenda, not the liberal one. Democrats go in for a strong UN, a peace corps, all that bleeding heart stuff, you know? If you conservatives could please explain why you care more about Iraq than you do about America, why you like propping up dictators more than spending money on our children's schools, and why you think poisoning the planet with carbonic acid is a good idea ... well, we liberals would really like to understand that stuff, 'cause it just seems dang ol' nuts to us.

Quote
1.) I agree that the current administration has been a very disappointing failure; however, I completely disagree with you that the economy here is not the best it's been since Sept 11th.† Just look at the stock market and how it has rebounded.† As I said before, yes, certain sectors are suffering, but many more are booming.† And that's quite typical of any markets.

The stock market is fixed (http://www.sprott.com/pdf/TheVisibleHand.pdf). And not just by the plunge protection team; America is founded on monopoly and corpocracy, with no relation between "economic growth" and real progress. Take a look at the GPI (http://www.eoearth.org/article/Toward_an_ecological_economy) to see what the real state of the nation is. Quality of life in America peaked in 1975 and has been going backwards fast in recent years. The real question on the stock market isn't how well are we doing - it's how long can our government keep manipulating global markets and global politics before the next bunch of bastards beats them at it.

Quote
2.) I wud'nt kno aneething bout wurkin'† Me just dumb Amaricun. Such an ignorant comment.† You know what America imports and exports?† Brains!† Why do you think the worlds best and brightest come here/stay here to work and study?†

We come because America is a great place to live if you have a good education. But American schools are being heavily outcompeted by those in India, China and Europe. We still produce a whole mess of liberal arts grads. Technical degrees - science and engineering - are no longer an American strength. Manufacturing and technical jobs aren't in America any more either. We are an avowed service economy - we don't make anything that anyone else in the world needs. We don't have oil any more, our farms are getting hammered by the weather wobbles, we don't make cars anyone else can use, we don't have a lock on software any more ... all we have left is "high speed pizza delivery".

We are an inward facing country. As our dollar continues to plummet we're going to find it getting harder and harder to get what we need to maintain what we use. And we're hooked on importing stuff - disposable stuff. Stuff that breaks easy. Now that the Chinese are turning off the credit spigot we can't keep importing stuff - and they have all the manufacturing infrastructure now. We don't. With the collapse of the mortgage bubble the last domestic industry we had going is turning off. We do indeed have brains - and now is the time for us to use them to reinvent ourselves.

As for the rest of that stuff about college campuses and Ayn Rand, you're not addressing my argument or arguing with a position I support. I'm actually quite sympathetic to libertarianism/extropianism. The problem with it is its tendentious sense of entitlement. The fact is taxes really are a stupid way to fund infrastructure. We can do better - and we're pretty soon going to have to do better!
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djdawg

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Re: Why I hate soccer - be forewarned. Not for the easily offended.
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2007, 01:40:42 PM »

And the thing is, this is an international forum.† I don't understand why anyone would trouble to post a statement like "the U.S. economy is doing the best that it has in years!!!" in the first place.† The US is an extremely wealthy country (albeit with the wealth most inequitably distributed).† I would be much more interested and glad to hear that the economy of some poverty stricken African country where people are lucky to live in shacks, is "doing great".

I posted that because someone said the U.S. was going through an "economic implosion." 
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djdawg

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Re: Why I hate soccer - be forewarned. Not for the easily offended.
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2007, 01:49:39 PM »

Quote
I didn't realize I said anything offensive.† I merely defend my country when, and it's frequent around here, attacked.

I didn't take offense at anything you said, K-Mac. Later today I'll put together a reply.

I hasten to add, however, I have not and would never attack America. I'm an American and love my country just as you do. If you question that, flax oil or peak oil, them's fightin' words.

Nevertheless it's more than a stretch to say America's doing better than "in years". We face fundamental systemic flaws that have been amplified but certainly not caused by the woebegone policies of the present administration.

Simply put, America needs to work for a living. We need to create something of value to the rest of the world, brand it, market it, and sell it. Our country has been living on credit for so long, we've come to think of ourselves as the entitled masters of the world. We're not.

We're no different from any other nation on this planet - we have to pay our bills, fuel our cars, and take care of our children. The fact that we face profound challenges on all these fronts is nothing to be embarrassed about. It's something to be dealt with rationally.

So long as we walk around wearing "I'm with Stupid" T-shirts, we're simply not taking care of business. And it is biting us. The longer we thump our chests and act like apes internationally, the worse it's going to bite us.

It's time for America to stop living at home "rent free" with its folks, get an education, and think for a living. Because there's nothing else we have to sell to anyone but our smarts and the repo man is outside hooking up our Buick.

Oh, and for falconcy, I look good in a fez.

I'll preface this by saying that this is "merely my opinion" and that it may not be the way you want to come across  but it looks like another "Evil America" post.  We're bad, we suck, we're greedy, we're stupid, blah, blah,blah.  This gets so old...I don't have stats in front of me but I'm sure the U.S.A. gives back to the world more then any other country.  I'm not saying we don't have problems and we're certainly not perfect.  And you're taking my quote out of context.  I was replying about the economy and how it is doing better then it has in years and that is certainly true.  Now you're lumping it with the administration as a whole and that's not what I was talking about......jealousy is very ugly.....
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K-Mac

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Re: Why I hate soccer - be forewarned. Not for the easily offended.
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2007, 05:59:52 PM »

Why is it, Peter, that you believe I am so much better and capable than all of the wretched, neglected, and abused poor in this country?  Do you think I come from money?  Do you think I have a higher education?  Do you think I was brought up in private schools rather than the trash that passes for American public education?  I made myself what I am today from NOTHING.  I had no financial or educational head starts.  But I believed in myself and the simple fact that every opportunity to do whatever you want lies in this country.  And I made the most of it.  Are you suggesting that today's poor have fewer advatages than I had?  Because I had none, mind you.  Frankly, I think the poor in this country have just as much opportunity now, if not more, than I had 15-20 years ago.  And I don't think they're dumb and helpless like you do.  I volunteered at the Astrodome all Labor Day weekend after Hurricane Katrina.  I saw with my own eyes, tens of thousands of able-bodied people who failed to evacuate because they were waiting on their welfare check to come in.  How pitiful!  I saw, and smelled, first hand the stench of altruism and what it leads to.  You can take that road my friend, but I will pick up a gun and fight like hell before I travel down it with you.
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