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New Application of Theory -- Extinguishing Conditioned Reinforcer (flavor)

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Author Topic: New Application of Theory -- Extinguishing Conditioned Reinforcer (flavor)  (Read 102765 times)

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conductor

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Magpie,

I am drinking Lemon Water during and between meals. It seems to work for me. I am making the lemon taste a little stronger during the meal and reduce a little the lemon content in between the meals to make sure that I taste the Lemon during the meals.  I was not hungry again today. Didn't crave anything at all and I feel great.

That's awesome!  You've had such a struggle - it's good to hear that something is finally working without messing you up!
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Clarinette

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Conductor 
Thank you. It feels good to know that something might work for me. :)
I hope that everything is going well for you too in Shangri La Diet!

Magpie

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Still trying to get this right. Me too Trina, which is why I wondered if it mattered that it was a acidic drink that you use as a calorie-free flavour, as Kool-Aid (from memory) tends to be more bland.†

Clarinette, LOVED your idea of the lemon or lime water.† It's natural, which is great, and did you know that studies have shown that an acidic element in a meal lowers the total GI of the meal, so it would keep you feeling fuller longer.† Besides, my sister in law just gave me a HUGE bag of lemons -- I'll take that as a sign too! So honey, you and I are lemoning together and lets see how it goes!† I'm still doing SLD, as it's OK for me, and I've switched to 2X daily (I'd gone to one dose, first thing when I woke up) but I started the lemon water today, as you are doing, and it feels good.† Just hope it works and I lose some weight.
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shinju_chan

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Not to make it sound--again-- like I'm totally opposed to the Kool-aid/high flavor-low calorie idea, but I would like to give some information.†

I am a yarn spinner and dyer and one of my favorite ways to dye yarn, because it's sooo easy, is to use Kool-aid.† With all other materials used to dye fabric/fiber, chemical dyes, natural plant dyes, etc. you need to use some sort of sticking agent, soda ash or some chemical or something to bind the dye to the fabric/fiber; otherwise after heating to set the color, the dye will run when you wash it.†

But, with Kool-aid, you don't need to use anything.† You just add it to the fiber, heat it, and it will never come out of the fabric no matter how many times you wash it.† In other words, it's a self-contained permanent dye.  Why, I don't know.

THAT is enough to make me never drink the stuff again.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2007, 05:26:05 AM by shinju_chan »
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mpq

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Not to make it sound--again-- like I'm totally opposed to the Kool-aid/high flavor-low calorie idea, but I would like to give some information. 

I am a yarn spinner and dyer and one of my favorite ways to dye yarn, because it's sooo easy, is to use Kool-aid.  With all other materials used to dye fabric/fiber, chemical dyes, natural plant dyes, etc. you need to use some sort of sticking agent, soda ash or some chemical or something to bind the dye to the fabric/fiber; otherwise after heating to set the color, the dye will run when you wash it. 

But, with Kool-aid, you don't need to use anything.  You just add it to the fiber, heat it, and it will never come out of the fabric no matter how many times you wash it.  In other words, it's a self-contained permanent dye. Why, I don't know.

THAT is enough to make me never drink the stuff again.
Can you use kool-aid to dye clothes?

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conductor

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Can you use kool-aid to dye clothes?


animal fibers only.  Doesn't work on cotton.  Not at all.  I don't know about clothing, mainly because you have to heat it up.  Here's an article:

http://www.knitty.com/issuefall02/FEATdyedwool.html
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andrea84

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Not to make it sound--again-- like I'm totally opposed to the Kool-aid/high flavor-low calorie idea, but I would like to give some information. 

I am a yarn spinner and dyer and one of my favorite ways to dye yarn, because it's sooo easy, is to use Kool-aid.  With all other materials used to dye fabric/fiber, chemical dyes, natural plant dyes, etc. you need to use some sort of sticking agent, soda ash or some chemical or something to bind the dye to the fabric/fiber; otherwise after heating to set the color, the dye will run when you wash it. 

But, with Kool-aid, you don't need to use anything.  You just add it to the fiber, heat it, and it will never come out of the fabric no matter how many times you wash it.  In other words, it's a self-contained permanent dye.  Why, I don't know.

THAT is enough to make me never drink the stuff again.

that's true, but they don't use any dyes in kool aid that aren't used in other foods - they use FD dyes: dyes that are safe for food. 

Plus, how many foods do you know of that permanently stain clothing, but we still eat those? ;)
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TalkingRat

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I've been reading this thread with interest.  Those of us hypersensitive about tasting/sensing calories could do calorie-free flavors instead of flavor-free calories.  I guess I haven't run out of things to try, after all.

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mpq

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I know they are not suppose to count, but for the slow losers like me, I am also hoping the reduction in fat/calories speeds things up. I had a cup of tea in a flavorless window (FW?) and it did cut my appetite.

For those of us who want to try this, should we substitute for the oil, or try it out at different times and continue with our SLD calories?
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Clarinette

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MPQ,
The first day , I took lemon water during meal time and I did Lemon Water in the 2 hour window as a replacement of the Oil or SW and it worked for me. You know how I can feel it and I can tell that it worked...Believe me, it did the job. So I think that it might work for you too. Me as a sensitive person I need too reduce that effect so lemon water in between meal for me without the window will be better but, even then,† I have to control the amount of lemon water in between meals to not feel bad. I can still feel it. But at least now I can do SLD ... :)

Clarinette

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I am having a taught and I have to share it with all to know if I am wrong or right.

For me I find right now that the Lemon Water take during the meals and between the meals is like this.

The brain associate my lemon water to my food calories. So, when I drink my lemon water in between meals my brain give the message that I received a lot of food. In reality I didn't but my brain still associate the lemon water to calories. So, in this case, the window of 2 hours wouldn't be necessary or it wouldn't require a lot of Lemon Water because of food association!
Am I completely out of the Field?

TalkingRat

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I was thinking that the brain, getting calorie-less flavor, would decide that particular flavor wasn't as calorie-rich as it originally thought, so it wouldn't send the signal to stock up. 

I would think you'd need the window, because if you had more calories near the flavor, then it would still see lemon as a source of calories.  But, wow, Clarinette, everything seems to work for you in such very small amounts, you very well might not need a 2 hour window.  Me, I need a 6 hour window just to rid myself of the flavor memory.

But maybe there's other things going on, because this morning I didn't follow through with the same flavor at breakfast, and I'm still very full.  I had vanilla water (would not recommend, LOL) and some peppermint gum, and waited an hour before having  a carb addict's breakfast,  followed by my morning espresso -- not following the extinguishing idea yet, but I feel stuffed.  Of course, the way flavors linger with me these days, I might still have flavored my breakfast with vanilla.   :lol:
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Clarinette

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Talking Rat,

The Calorie-less Flavor brevage (lets say) as to be done during your meal and in between the meal. You have to use the same brevage I would say. Vanilla water might be different ! lol  :lol:

multimoe

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Not to make it sound--again-- like I'm totally opposed to the Kool-aid/high flavor-low calorie idea, but I would like to give some information.†

THAT is enough to make me never drink the stuff again
.
Hi shinju-chan,

Thank you for your info on the Kool-Aid.† Well noted.† About this Kool-Aid thing:† We are talking about calorieless flavours, not specifically Kool-Aid or anything else, as long as it is taken with and between meals.† When I saw Dougís original post and Sethís reply in this thread, a light went on in my head as I realized that it was likely an explanation for my husbandís almost textbook response to the SLD, while mine was something less (leaving the gender issue aside for a moment).

Truly, even though we eat exactly the same food, he became just as Seth described: real loss of interest in food (for someone who always planned the next morningís breakfast before he fell asleep), missing meals, etc. (Spooky part? They even resemble each other a bitÖ..)† Remember all the tea drinking that Seth mentioned (Iím assuming it was with and between meals).† Same thing with the Kool-Aid.† I was not drinking my tea with meals, only between.† I can tell you that is changed!. I think that he is also an example of correct progression of weight loss for those with less to lose: very, very gradual and sure (fergetaboudit!)† (My little Guinea Pig!)

This Kool-Aid, by the way, was chosen by me for him because he didnít like plain water, and I wanted to avoid Aspertame or Splenda.† It is greatly diluted (12-14 c. water per pk. Instead of the 8 as directed, 1/3 c. (or so) fructose, some Stevia to taste.† So not really highly flavoured.† I am considering using it for both of us.† Make a gigantic batch (sigh!)

My view is that this is a feature of SLD that was not fully understood: because of the way SLD changes the body, calorieless flavours can now provide appetite suppression too.† My husband and I will continue to utilize all the wonderful features.

I donít know for sure about adhering to any windows, but I can tell you that my husband never thought of such a thing with regard to drinking his Kool-Aid, but we are strict about the flavour-free period for the oil.

Mpq† Thereís no reason why you canít use sweeteners if you wantójust not sugar (calorieless flavour only)† Why not continue with the oil for now, but still keep its precious 2hr. flavour-free window well away from your lemon water, or tea, or whatever you chose to have with and between meals.† My husband and I take our oil before bed or in the wee hours.

Clarinette:† I agree with T.R. that you should not worry too much about any windows.† Just have your lemon water with meals and have some in between as well.† You can drink water also.
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TalkingRat

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Thanks, Clarinette.  I did understand how it was supposed to work.  I didn't follow through with having it at breakfast, like I was supposed to:  it was not a pleasant flavor, and I didn't want to have it again with the meal.  But I have a terrible lingering flavor problem, so vanilla is still in my mouth, 4 hours after drinking it.   I was joking that with that kind of lingering flavor, I may have had vanilla flavor with breakfast without having had more.  That's been my AS problem, that I can't get rid of flavor.  I'm not recommending what I did, it was just an observation of surprise that I felt stuffed.  I am not sure why that would be, when I didn't follow through with the flavor at my meal.    :D
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