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[Pinkmug]

Surely you've heard of the death by anorexia of Brazilian top model Ana Carolina Reston, last 11/14.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_Carolina_Reston
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15750402/

Unfortunately not many fashion promotors were following Spanish organizers' (of the Cibeles event) decision to ban from the catwalk models with a BMI lower than 18. But Brazilian top models agencies have gathered and decided that in order to preserve the image of the profession, applicants to these agencies will have to produce a health statement by a MD and blood counts, and be size 38 at least (US 10).

Not quick enough to prevent another death, of the Brazilian fashion student Carla Sobrado Casalle, by cardiac arrest due to anorexia and abuse of slimming drugs, just 3 days after Ana Carolina died. I couldn't find a link to any article written in English about this recent death.

I'm not worried about us people on SLD, I've never seen a target wieght goal under 120 lbs here. But I hope nobody has the not-so-bright idea of using SLD to be an ultra-slim top model... now that the trend seems to be more normal-looking girls on the catwalk. ABOUT TIME! HALELLUJAH!!! 

[falconcy]

I have been concerned about the SLD being abused by people suffering form these kind of illnesses. That said, in order to get the level of AS necessary to fuel that level of weight loss/maintenance they would need quite a bit of oil and although it may not be healthy, they would likely get more calories from the oil alone ;-) Plus they would need to eat something on top of the oil.

I also feel that due to the nature of the SLD with regards to getting the body below a set-point lower than what the body wants to be, it would be very difficult, just look at the hard time some of you have getting the last 10-15 lbs off

[bekel]

I did see a 120 lb person want to get to @95. She only posted a few times, and the people who posted in her thread all mentioned that it seemed like she was a good weight already.

Thankfully that was the only person I've seen so far.

[Pinkmug]

Falconcy you have a point there, but I wonder what would happen to a person if all their calories were SLD calories. Like 15 T oil a day, for a person with a 1800 cal requirement a day. Would they gradually lower their weight? Is there a lower limit to the set point? No "body" wants to starve to death, right? Might this be a self-regulating diet... That would be great!!!!

Bekel, hmmm 95 is low, unless this was a very short person. I wonder what their BMI was. Ana Carolina's BMI was 13.5 when she died!! The poor girl was scorned by her coworkers when she has 50 kg (died with 40). They called her fat!!! She had been eating nothing but apples and tomatoes. Another model who had died a few months back spent her last 3 months dieting on lettuce and diet coke.

Like a commentator said on TV, why the hell does the fashion industry model on ultra-skinny, boney teenagers the clothes that are meant to be bought by normal weight women on their 30's and 40's and more???

[lvivianka]

it is very sad - to starve to death. that is a horrible death and for what? speaking for myself, most of the clothes they model I would never wear - even if I were 110 lbs.

[mamenie]

I don't think SLD could ever lead to that, the body has its own defense mechanisms. In fact, I had been wondering just the opposite, whether some people could never bring their set point under a certain limit known only to the body itself and which might still be considered as overweight by our conscious self.

[sammie]

I think beauty "ideals" represent the uncommon, the hard-to-attain - and in this day and age of over-nutrition and obesity, extremely thin is what is held up as the ideal.  I don't think it's a coincidence that the larger the "average" person gets, the thinner the "average" model gets.  And in a day and age where plastic surgery allows more and more people to achieve the "ideal," the ideal gets more and more extreme.  Bigger and bigger lips and breasts, whiter and whiter teeth, longer and longer hair - and thinner and thinner bodies.  I sometimes wonder how far this will go?  How much farther CAN it go?

As far as SLD goes, I agree - it seems pretty difficult to be unnaturally thin on SLD.  Although as pointed out that's given the experiences of posts to this board, where people are trying to achieve a normal body weight and have no desire to consume nothing but oil.  It's my sincere hope that it can't be abused by those who would abuse it.

[frenata]

I think falconcy's right: I suspect SLD is self-regulating. If you tried to cut your non-SLD calories to zero, the number of calories you'd get from oil or sugarwater would exceed the number that the dangerously anorexic eat in a day.

[ani]

Slight derail, but I had a lightbulb moment some years ago when I went to a real fashion show and saw runway models in action.

I realized that models are tall and thin because you're not supposed to look at them -- you're supposed to look at the clothes they're wearing instead. One of the models in the show that I saw had a hint of proto-curves showing, and when she walked down the runway you noticed a person (or at least a body) rather than focussing exclusively on the outfit. That's not good. It messes with the presenter's intention.

Once I understood that, I immediately stopped feeling uncomfortable about not looking like one of them.

Regrettably, the culture has somehow absorbed the idea that models -- who have to be thin because their job is, effectively, to be walking clothes hangers -- constitute some sort of beauty standard for other people. Of course, there's no particular reason why they should.

[frenata]

And that "camera adds ten pounds" thing? Totally true. People who look just right on camera look ill in person.

[terio]

Believe it or not, there is actually a new digital camera that has a setting that will make people look thinner.  What it does is it narrows the center of the frame.  So you stand in the middle of the picture and put your annoying sister on the outer edges. Instant revenge!

[lvivianka]

I want that camera

[Terri]

Me, too! Get me one now! 
I have a dear friend who I mentioned before. She had the bipass surgery and I saw her this last weekend. She has lost over a hundred pounds in 9 months and looks so bad. Her face is sunken and her body is a bag of bones. She had on a pair of jeans and she was sitting in a chair. I looked at her leg as she was sitting there and I could see her skin literally hanging down where her leg was off the chair.  Like there was no muscle tone. I talked to her and asked her how is she going to stop losing more weight. She said she is trying to start eating more food but it is like feeding a new baby. Just a little bit of food at one time. She said eventually she will be able to eat a cup of food at one sitting. So, here is this woman almost 60 years old and she is not healthy in any way shape or form. She has to rest all the time. No energy. 
I am so thankful for SLD. I know I am doing the right thing. I would never want to look like my friend. What happens if a person so thin gets sicker?  They die. I don't want to lose my friend. But I am very worried about her. Too much is really too little.
Terri

[Pinkmug]

Slight derail, but I had a lightbulb moment some years ago when I went to a real fashion show and saw runway models in action.

I realized that models are tall and thin because you're not supposed to look at them -- you're supposed to look at the clothes they're wearing instead. One of the models in the show that I saw had a hint of proto-curves showing, and when she walked down the runway you noticed a person (or at least a body) rather than focussing exclusively on the outfit. That's not good. It messes with the presenter's intention.

Once I understood that, I immediately stopped feeling uncomfortable about not looking like one of them.

Regrettably, the culture has somehow absorbed the idea that models -- who have to be thin because their job is, effectively, to be walking clothes hangers -- constitute some sort of beauty standard for other people. Of course, there's no particular reason why they should.

Hmmm.. not sure! if they were supposed to be so "invisible" how come they are always looking for a chance to stand out and become famous - to get themselves one of those fabulous advertising contracts for example, or take the leap to the movie industry? Think for instance of Kate Moss, Naomi Campbell, Gisele Bundchen, Claudia Schiffer, Eva Herzigova, Liz Hurley, Paulina Porizkova, Mila Jovovitch, Christie Brinkley, Cindy Crawford... let alone the additional chance to become a celeb's wife (like a footballer, soccer player, singer...) Therefore I think the idea of the "invisible" anonymous model belongs in the past (like, before the 1980's).

My opinion is that top designers give their preference to thin models, thus pushing that body ideal, because it's more difficult to create a garment for a curvy body than a lean one (on a curvy body you never know how a fabric will hang), and besides with thin models they save on the fabrics.......  :lol:

But I agree with you in one point: that body ideal was taken universally to be the standard, for no valid reason. How did we let that happen??? What message are we telling our daughters, and if not exactly us, how come we are allowing "society" (or rather, certain economic interests - the fashion industry and the related press) to impose that standard on our children???

[Pinkmug]

I think beauty "ideals" represent the uncommon, the hard-to-attain - and in this day and age of over-nutrition and obesity, extremely thin is what is held up as the ideal.  I don't think it's a coincidence that the larger the "average" person gets, the thinner the "average" model gets.  And in a day and age where plastic surgery allows more and more people to achieve the "ideal," the ideal gets more and more extreme.  Bigger and bigger lips and breasts, whiter and whiter teeth, longer and longer hair - and thinner and thinner bodies.  I sometimes wonder how far this will go?  How much farther CAN it go?

Yes, I think this is key to the psychological side of society having adopted the very thin body model. While fashion designers may have one reason (e.g. easier to work on thin models) and model wannabes another reason (an easy way to fame and fortune, or so they think - much easier than spending years and your whole youth with noses poked inside text books...) the power of attraction of hard-to-attain may have a role in society's body ideals. And also the social image of it. The upper classes are thin because they can afford to. They eat protein and veggies, go to the gym, play sports, and go to the plastic surgeon as needed. The less fortunate get to eat carbs and trans fats, and their main source of entertainment is spending hours in front of the TV set. Thin is desirable, shows you have money. Not long ago, fat women were sexy. Look at Renoir's paintings. Or Da Vinci's and Botticelli's. Back then, food wasn't easy to get, so the upper classes were fat. Post-industrial revolution, thin and tanned started being desirable on the 20th century only. I hope the 21st sees another paradigm  shift - to normal weight BMI-wise and toned muscles. Balance is beautiful should be our new motto!