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I become my own lab rat

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Author Topic: I become my own lab rat  (Read 10230 times)

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Naja

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I become my own lab rat
« on: August 03, 2006, 10:54:03 AM »

Though hopefully not in an entirely literal sense, since I know what happens to lab rats.  Not all of them get to participate in experiments where they get to eat endless Big Macs, and the ones that are selected for such hedonism tend to end up homogenized. 

Whatever you do, never, ever make smoothies in a science lab.  That is not what the blender in the lab is for.  Trust me on this.

The behavioral science in Dr. Roberts' paper looked reasonably sound to me, so a few days ago I began ingesting 1 to 1.5 tablespoons of tasteless vegetable oil chased with ice water (started out using corn oil) upon rising in the morning.  I clearly understand the parameters of the experiment.  Eg, no taste stimulus whatsoever permitted within a two hour window with the ingestion event in the middle of this time frame.  Nothing but plain water is put in the mouth during this time. 

I did not experience any notable appetite suppressing effects.  I added a crazy spiced smoothie for lunch (ice, raw egg, heavy cream, 1/2 tbsp corn oil, coriander, BBQ spice, garlic powder, Splenda, Italian herbs) and chased it with a handful of dessicated liver pills for protein and amino acids.  Still no notable appetite suppression effects.  The smoothie was delicious and reminded me of an Indian lassi drink.  I will omit the coriander next time as that may be too familiar a taste for me.  Or I'll add mustard and cocoa powder, something like that. 

I ate as I normally do for the remainder of my meals, which is to say meat and vegetables, mostly raw.  I am a low carber and also a (sadly hapazard at the moment) weight lifter/exerciser.  I have successfully dropped 80 lbs over the past two and a half years on this regimen, slowly but steadily.  I have plateaued in the last several months, possibly because my exercise routine has become much less regular. 

I am a "supertaster" with a notoriously keen palate.  I can often correctly identify the varietal of a wine in somebody else's glass when they are sitting next to me.  The corn oil is light and tasteless, but I chase it with ice water to be sure that any taste stimulus is eliminated.   I may use the nose clip method also.  I have extensive experience with exotic and unfamiliar foods, and have always been eager to seek out novel tastes.  My palate does not tend to be "surprised" by novel tastes, and I have delighted in creating dishes such as balsamic strawberry sorbet with cracked black pepper essence, savory blue cheese and Sauternes ice cream over a Roquefort and mushroom tart,  napoleons of mango, lemongrass and foie gras, blueberry and roasted onion mustard, etc.   I am wondering if my personal associations with novel tastes would interfere with the effectiveness of "crazy spicing", or whether the basic principles of taste/calorie association conditioning are buried too deep in the rat brain for human environmental experiences to have this effect. 

It is possible that low carbing has enough of an appetite suppression effect on its own that the SLD effect is not being noticed.  I am certain to lose weight if I continue, since I am amusing myself with this lab rat diet regimen and doing 120-200 calories of oil for breakfast and 200-300 smoothie calories for lunch.  But I am not experiencing any particular appetite suppression, and as a consequence this is neither comfortable nor sustainable. 

Thoughts and ideas are welcome.

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CarolS

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Re: I become my own lab rat
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2006, 11:40:53 AM »

Go the other way.  Eat plain oatmeal, try the tasteless protein mixtures.  Give it some more time too.

BTW congrats on the 80lbs!
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Naja

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Re: I become my own lab rat
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2006, 11:54:52 AM »

Go the other way.  Eat plain oatmeal, try the tasteless protein mixtures.  Give it some more time too.

BTW congrats on the 80lbs!

Thank you!  I do plan to give it a fair trial over time.

I am not interested in moving to a higher carb diet.  I use a small amount of raw oatmeal in water to glycogen load before a workout, but other than that, I avoid starchy foods.  SLD works well with a low carb regimen.
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Naja

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Re: I become my own lab rat
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2006, 11:55:14 AM »

Adventures in crazy spicing

Asian markets often have interesting spices, including flavored extracts.  Though what I did today with mocha flavored protein powder, durian and jasmine extracts, cherry syrup, hot mustard and garlic salt was not tasty.  Bizzare to be sure, and fully meeting the criteria of a novel taste experience.  Blech. 

I think I managed to reach a new level of revolting with this concoction.  I could not finish it, so I took 1.5 tablespoons of vegetable oil with the last few mouthfuls I could manage in order to achieve the goal of associating calories with a novel flavor.

I may have hit on the true secret of this diet.  If I had finished the entire glass, I would have been too nauseated to eat anything at all for the next week.   As it is, I'm not sure I'll be wanting any dinner. 
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imsovain

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Re: I become my own lab rat
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2006, 12:28:58 PM »

I'm confused.  You say that you are not experiencing appetite suppression but that SLD works well.  Which is it?

I would not use the mysterious "vegetable" oil or corn oil.

http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html#poly
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paulkimelman

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Re: I become my own lab rat
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2006, 01:07:10 PM »

I would suggest not using Corn oil nor changing oils often, as your body takes time to adjust to a new oil. ELOO, refined Walnut (such as Spectrum at Whole Foods), refined Coconut, Flaxseed (linseed), and Hemp (not easy to get in the US) seem to be the most popular (and healthy). You may find that pouring the oil into a bit of water 1st makes it easier to drink without taste (or the oily feel). A further help (at least for some of us) is pouring the oil into sweetened water (1tsp sugar in 2-3 tbs of water and 1 TBS of oil). This seems to increase the appetite suppressing effects. Chasing with more water is always a good idea.
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Seth Roberts

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Re: I become my own lab rat
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2006, 01:18:34 PM »

Quote
I may have hit on the true secret of this diet.  If I had finished the entire glass, I would have been too nauseated to eat anything at all for the next week.

if the crazy smoothie is nauseating there is room for improvement.

two secrets to crazy spicing 2.0:

1. use spice blends, not spices. They are far more complex in terms of flavor than spices and they are balanced.

2. the combination of fat, sweetness (from Splenda or sugar), salt (from the spice blends), protein, creamy texture, and thirst-satisfying liquid -- all sources of mild pleasure -- makes the drink quite pleasant, even though the taste is strange.

it never tastes anything but pleasant.
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Naja

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Re: I become my own lab rat
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2006, 03:12:02 PM »

I'm confused.  You say that you are not experiencing appetite suppression but that SLD works well.  Which is it?

SLD is compatible with a low carb regimen if you use oil rather than sugar water, eg, it works well in that respect.  It appears to be reasonably well grounded in good behavioral science and has anecdotal reports of success, so I assume it works well as a general rule.  It is not currently having appetite suppressant effects for me, but these are early results and plenty of room for tweaking.

Quote
I would not use the mysterious "vegetable" oil or corn oil.

Why not corn oil?  It's what happens to be handy.  But I can go buy ELOO.  Flax oil definitely has a taste.
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Naja

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Re: I become my own lab rat
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2006, 03:15:23 PM »

Quote
I may have hit on the true secret of this diet.  If I had finished the entire glass, I would have been too nauseated to eat anything at all for the next week.

if the crazy smoothie is nauseating there is room for improvement.

I would say so.  My first attempt was so tasty and so reminiscent of a spiced lassi that I was concerned that it might become a "ditto food".  So my second attempt was a bit "crazier".

Perhaps the duran extract was not such a good idea.
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frenata

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Re: I become my own lab rat
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2006, 03:22:13 PM »

I would say so.  My first attempt was so tasty and so reminiscent of a spiced lassi that I was concerned that it might become a "ditto food".  So my second attempt was a bit "crazier".

Well, not to worry. If you shake doesn't turn out "crazy" enough, then it just counts as a meal. That's okay. You're allowed to have them, too  :)
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paulkimelman

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Re: I become my own lab rat
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2006, 03:48:50 PM »

> Why not corn oil?  It's what happens to be handy.  But I can go buy ELOO.  Flax oil definitely has a taste.

Corn may be associated with the rise in obesity in this Country. The heavy use of corn for sweetener, cooking oil, and filler is *correlated* with the rise in obesity. Could be coincidence, but may not be. Also, there is some advantage in treading the path that others have if you want the highest chance for sauces. Finally, many of the other oils have health benefits, especially essential fatty acids.
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imsovain

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Re: I become my own lab rat
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2006, 05:34:57 PM »

Corn oil has a high omega-6/omega-3 ratio.
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paulkimelman

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Re: I become my own lab rat
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2006, 05:44:05 PM »

83:1 is the omega-6 to omega-3 ratio in normal corn oil. This is not great as we get too much omega-6 and not enough omega-3. We should have about 4:1 to 5:1 omega-6 to omega-3 in our diets. Note that although Coconut is only omega-6, it is a tiny percentage of omega-6, so it does not take much omega-3 to get back in balance (assuming the same quantity of oil is being consumed).
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xtine

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Re: I become my own lab rat
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2006, 08:29:03 PM »

Hi Naja--- first, for many of us appetite suppression can take up to two weeks, since it involves a process of lowering the set point and that can be slow (according to the theory).  I hope it works for you.  I have lost 7 lbs in 5 weeks on it and found it very sustainable. 

Second--- my own question---- I'm interested in a higher protein/ lower carb diet BUT have found that raising my protein intake really has bad effects on my bowel regularity!  Others on this forum have said that one needs to increase fluid intake to overcome this problem.  As a long-term low carber, I'm wondering if you encountered and overcame this problem---- or if I'm just particularly susceptible to this?  Your thoughts appreciated on protein and regularity--- I seem to work best in that regard with lots of fruit and veg and some unrefined grains and flour products--- but I do feel more energetic with higher protein intake.
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Seth Roberts

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Re: I become my own lab rat
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2006, 10:55:06 PM »

xtine, I add fiber, soluble and insoluble, to my crazy-spiced smoothies. Which have no carbs, just protein, fat, water, spices, and artificial sweetener, all of which I assume are compatible with your diet.
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