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TalkingRat: A New Start 2/26/10. (Beginning at Post 492)

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Author Topic: TalkingRat: A New Start 2/26/10. (Beginning at Post 492)  (Read 102180 times)

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TalkingRat

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Re: Talking Rat: Start 7/16 @ 182.5 pounds ... 7 weeks, -9.9 pounds
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2006, 08:32:22 AM »


Right, Marianna, CNut=coconut.  I'm keep changing my mind about a reasonable abbreviation for coconut oil.  People use "CO,"  but that is also what people use for Canola Oil.  Coconut could be CnO, except that still confuses it with canola. 

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Ann H

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Re: Talking Rat: Start 7/16 @ 182.5 pounds ... 7 weeks, -9.9 pounds
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2006, 12:07:14 AM »

Just an interesting tidbit...

I posted here earlier that I had tried noseclipped EV[/i]OO and given up because it was still a very notable experience, and I thought "notable experiences" weren't likely to contribute SLD calories. But...

I was just finishing off a little ML-marked medicine-bottle of coconut oil, looked at my EVOO, thought What the hey, and dumped some in. I noseclip-swigged that mix of about 10ML EVOO and about 15 ML coconut, and NO EVOO flavor/"experience". I'll keep it up: worth a good shot! Will cross-post over in the oil area.

Ann H
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Ann H

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Re: Talking Rat: Start 7/16 @ 182.5 pounds ... 7 weeks, -9.9 pounds
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2006, 12:19:53 AM »

Quote
Right, Marianna, CNut=coconut.  I'm keep changing my mind about a reasonable abbreviation for coconut oil.  People use "CO,"  but that is also what people use for Canola Oil.  Coconut could be CnO, except that still confuses it with canola. 

Just a neat little bit on this... In Singapore, the highways etc. are abbreviated by the first letter NOT of each word, but of each syllable. This is useful mnemonically. (But extremely annoying in that Singapore English at its worst "chops up" all the syllables in words and sentences, pronouncing them all equally and robotically. "I-Want-To-Be-A-Ba-Le-Ri-Na" is a typical kid sentence. The abbreviation system plays right into that.)

So, the Pan-Island Expressway is PIE, but then the City Expressway is CTE (Ci-Ty Expressway). It's a good solution, if annoying for fostering pronunciation mutilations.

Coconut oil: CCO/CCNO. Canola oil: CNO/CNLO. :) There. Now we all can be Singaporeans.

Ann H
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TalkingRat

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Re: Talking Rat: Start 7/16 @ 182.5 pounds ... 7 weeks, -9.9 pounds
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2006, 08:57:46 AM »

Ann H,
CCNO and CNLO, I llike it.  I'd go nuts with PIE and CTE, though.  Here, CO may become coconut by default, and canola will end up being just canola.  I'll keep an eye on your EVOO experiments.  I just didn't think I had the same appetite supression, but then I thought that of coconut, too.  EVOO both floated and noseclipped was also tasteless  :lol: and burnless.  I'm thinking maybe it was advil that increased my appetite, no fault of the oils.

As for this week, my three week advil tracking shows very predictable blips in weight.  The four week trend is flat, but the variance is increasing, and lately my weight differs by as much as 3.5 lb in two days, all tracking with advil, except for today's weight: a clipped smoothie for lunch and chicken wings last night has the water requirement equivalent of an advil.

I'd realllly like to get back to smaller variances; it's a little unnerving to have bounces so large.  Graphed, it looks like a 4-week plateau with increasing variability.  Appetite supression has been down, and today I took aspirin to see if it makes a difference.

New discovery this morning:  I took ELOO first (man, I admire those of you with iron stomachs!), had coffee an hour later, and I'm about to burst.  I remember a couple other comments about SLD dose + coffee, and my first smoothie that stuffed me so much had coffee.  Maybe coffee helps digest the calories more quickly?  The stuffed feeling didn't last very long, but I'm not hungry, just feeling a bit wired.
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bekel

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Re: Talking Rat: Start 7/16 @ 182.5 pounds ... 7 weeks, -9.9 pounds
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2006, 09:02:35 AM »

I've done noseclipped tea before and had the same effect as coffee had with you.

Perhaps the caffeine??
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TalkingRat

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Re: Talking Rat: Start 7/16 @ 182.5 pounds ... 8 weeks, -9.9 pounds
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2006, 09:54:31 AM »


Definite possibility. Caffeine has thermogenic properties, so it could set off a nice hot calorie burn.  Let's see:  aspirin... coffee... all I need is a sudafed and I have an ephedra stack.  Given the FDA ban, I think ELOO makes a more appealing combination.
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frenata

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Re: Talking Rat: Start 7/16 @ 182.5 pounds ... 8 weeks, -9.9 pounds
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2006, 10:19:03 AM »

Definite possibility. Caffeine has thermogenic properties, so it could set off a nice hot calorie burn.  Let's see:  aspirin... coffee... all I need is a sudafed and I have an ephedra stack.  Given the FDA ban, I think ELOO makes a more appealing combination.

I've thought the same thing. What's the deal with the ban, though? I thought you could still order the stuff. (I'm not tempted. I think it would probably send my anxieties through the roof. Chromium Picolonate sure did).
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TalkingRat

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Re: Talking Rat: Start 7/16 @ 182.5 pounds ... 8 weeks, -9.9 pounds
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2006, 10:38:28 AM »

There's a Utah ephedra dealer still selling, no doubt getting rid of his stock before the FDA cracks down.  The FDA won their appeal last month.  Apparently the ephedra makers have one last appeal, but the ban has been reinstated.  From the FDA site:

Quote
On August 17, 2006, the United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit in Denver, Colorado upheld the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) final rule declaring all dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids adulterated, and therefore illegal for marketing in the United States, reversing a decision by the District Court of Utah.

The Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals' ruling demonstrates the soundness of FDA's decision to ban dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids, consistent with the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA) of 1994. The Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals also found that Congress clearly required FDA to conduct a risk-benefit analysis under DSHEA.

The FDA conducted an exhaustive and highly resource-intensive evaluation of the relevant scientific data on ephedrine alkaloids before issuing its final rule, which became effective in 2004. The court found that the 133,000-page administrative record compiled by the FDA supports the agency's findings that dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids pose an unreasonable risk of illness or injury to users, especially those suffering from heart disease and high blood pressure.

No dosage of dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids is safe and the sale of these products in the United States is illegal and subject to FDA enforcement action.

Sudafed kicks up my blood pressure, so no way I'd try ephedra.  Some online friends were getting on the bandwagon, but I did SLD instead.  Far healthier, much cheaper.  Those who did ephedra aren't talking about kicking the coffee habit, stronger nails, softer skin, better mood, lower arthritic pain, and for most of them, not even lower weight.
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bekel

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Re: Talking Rat: Start 7/16 @ 182.5 pounds ... 8 weeks, -9.9 pounds
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2006, 10:50:41 AM »

It amazes me the risks we will take in search of weight loss. It seems to me that very little of what's touted as 'weigh loss techniques/diets' have any type or quanity of long term research behind them.
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TalkingRat

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Re: Talking Rat: Start 7/16 @ 182.5 pounds ... 8 weeks, -9.9 pounds
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2006, 01:27:33 PM »

OK, I'm speculating on an additional connection between SLD and appetite supression.  I am really struck by the inter-relatedness of foods influencing inflammation, mood, and appetite.

My NSAIDs tracking showed that my weight ticks up when I take NSAIDs, but I need them, so I resigned myself this week to higher numbers.  One painfree day was followed by a couple really bad days of limping around with my cane and -- I especially dislike this part -- total strangers stopping me to tell me their "cure" for me.  To make things worse,  I completely lost my AS and couldn't stop eating chocolates all night.  I don't want to consciously calculate how many calories that appetite lapse was.  But since AS was totally gone, and I was stuffed, I didn't add the misery of more calories to it.  I skipped my oil that night and the next day, but I still took fish and flax capsules.

Surprisingly, without the oil, my AS was improved, and I began to wonder if the dark chocolate had helped.  We had salmon for dinner and about an hour after that, I realized I was pain free.  Another two hours and I realized my AS was also completely present again, even though I had skipped the oil.

So I'm putting that all together, along with my prior observation that smoothies gave me improved AS only when they had ingredients considered as anti-inflammatories or anti-oxidants.  Omega-3 research shows it helps with mood and inflammation.  What if the mechanisms that reduces inflammation and improve serotonin levels also regulates hunger signals?  Certainly oils rich in omega-3 would fit.  And olive oil, while it doesn't have much omega-3, can improve a bad balance with omega-6, and it also has  inflammation-reducing oleocanthal.  And since ELOO has some EVOO in it, chances are it has oleocanthal.  Mine does, I feel the burn.  Coconut oil has been associated with reduced inflammation, too, although it isn't clear to me what's in it.

I had assumed anti-inflammatory meds caused stomach distress and that's why my hunger signals worked overtime, but it could also be that what caused inflammation also broke my normal hunger signals. 

My unscientific mind got seriously confused about what's anti-inflammatory and what's anti-oxidant; they seem to go hand in hand and the same foods show up on both lists; anti-oxidants reduce inflammation.  I usually notice a thermogenic effect from them, too.  Mood, inflammation, appetite, thermogenesis are tied to the same foods, and I guess I don't really care what the biochemists call the specific mechanism for each.

So how does sugar fit in? Insulin resistance is associated with inflammation.  But when sugar is taken slowly, so there is no insulin response, maybe sugar reduces inflammation, as do the SLD oils.  It wouldn't have to work by reducing inflammation, but glucosamine is one sugar that does, so it's possible inflammation and appetite are both regulated by the same thing, from oil or sugar.  And then there's the suggestion that people eating low glycemic (inflammation reducing!) diets may notice appetite supression sooner.

With this alternate view:  smoothies wouldn't need lots of calories, just lots of anti-oxidants.  Would they need to be noseclipped?  I'm not going to mess with that, I'll noseclip!  But I think I'll try my next smoothie with fewer calories and more anti-oxidants.  :D 
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CarolS

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Re: Talking Rat: Start 7/16 @ 182.5 pounds ... 8 weeks, -9.9 pounds
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2006, 01:53:22 PM »

When  you figure that all out let us know!
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rosekelly

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Re: Talking Rat: Start 7/16 @ 182.5 pounds ... 8 weeks, -9.9 pounds
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2006, 01:57:24 PM »

Quote
With this alternate view:  smoothies wouldn't need lots of calories, just lots of anti-oxidants.  Would they need to be noseclipped?  I'm not going to mess with that, I'll noseclip!  But I think I'll try my next smoothie with fewer calories and more anti-oxidants.

Very interesting. I have to say I'm not up on anti-inflammatories but I'm more or less aware of anti-oxidants and try to keep them going through me to prevent cancer recurrence. The smoothies I take are full of anti-oxidants. For one thing, I'm crazily spicing them just in case I get a taste through the noseclip but also due to the healthful nature of spices I've read about recently, including their anti-oxidant effect. I always add turmeric especially.  I'm also adding half a scoop of Whole Food's Perfect Food, which is full of anti-oxidants. I've been throwing berries of one kind or another in too, plus veggies.  More anti-oxidants.

The calories are around 350.  I've got great AS.

Rose
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TalkingRat

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Re: TalkingRat: Start 7/16 @ 182.5 pounds ... 9 weeks, -9.7 pounds
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2006, 08:28:39 AM »

9/17 - 9 weeks.  172.8 for the weekly average, up a tick but still bouncing close to 10 pounds below where I started, and I am optimistic again, thanks to things I learned from Chrianna's progress thread. 

The biggest 'aha' was that coconut in noseclipped smoothies was almost immediately associated with the calories.  CO wasn't working as well as an oil, but I thought noseclipped it would be fine.  I started wanting foods with coconut/palm oil.  DS's microwaved snacks (popcorn, pizza pockets, pizza rounds) drove me nuts, with a smell that lingered.  It makes me sick and hungry at the same time.   I started wanting Quaker granola as an after dinner snack.  Coconut or palm oil is an ingredient in nearly all snack foods, including my all-time favorites, chocolate and ice cream.   I think the distinctive oily quality of coconut (and palm) oil is so recognizable, that we associate it with calories apart from smell.  Tricky manufacturers, they know we sense it there, and want more.

One other mouth sensation is similarly distinctive to me:  cream.  When I was around 15, we got some goats from a dairy that was closing down, and along with them came a cream separator.  My brother and I made ice cream soon after. Goat's milk is naturally homogenized, and running it through this "cow" separator gave us cream so thick, we could turn it upside down and shake, and it wouldn't fall out of the bowl.  Did we think to dilute it?  Nah.  We made chocolate ice cream, and while it was memorably good, we literally could not eat more than a bite at a time.  That sensation of cream on soft palate locked onto my memory, so I suspect that cream is something we can also associate with calories without having to taste it.  That may explain ice cream temptation.  Now that I understand its lure, maybe I can stay away.  That would definitely help the diet cause.

This week I again had large weight fluctuations.  Today's weight was 172.2.  I'm hoping to hit that as an average next week.  Ever optimistic.  I think I need to apply some of Chrianna's "white knuckle" technique, it would be a great boost to break through this plateau. 

I did a little more experimenting with my antioxidant theory.  A small salad with very few calories more than usual kept me from thinking about food for hours longer.  I haven't found anything specific to antioxidants and AS, but a lot of supplement ads put "antioxidant" and "appetite supression" in the same sentence.  So I'm going to play with this some more.  My foot swelling is down right now, always a good sign.

When I had my chocolate binge, I stopped my oil for a couple days.  I'm back on track, AS is there too, as I can tell by my returning take-it-or-leave it attitude about coffee -- another 'aha' this week, that coffee interest can tell me the direction my AS level is taking, before I consciously realize it.

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chrianna

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Re: TalkingRat: Start 7/16 @ 182.5 pounds ... 9 weeks, -9.7 pounds
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2006, 11:32:41 AM »

TR--just stopping by to praise you.  our latest round of experimenting and then blabbing about it has us both on the right track, i hope.  your average next week WILL be lower.

i'm glad you can extract something from my incoherent ramblings on my thread.  whenever i follow you around on here i always learn something. 

love your cream story!

so, uh, what's your take on zigzagging calories?  i know frenata is doing it and dgrillot is starting . . .
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TalkingRat

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Re: TalkingRat: Start 7/16 @ 182.5 pounds ... 9 weeks, -9.7 pounds
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2006, 01:10:35 PM »

Thanks, Chrianna!  I'm delighted we are both back on track.  It's fun working this out together.  Today I'm alternating between wondering if I'm hungry and knowing that I'm not.  I keep asking myself if I crave coffee, and the answer is no.  :)   Glad you liked the cream story, I don't think I've ever told it before, but the coconut experience brought it to mind. 

My take on zigzag?  Isn't that what I just did anyway, devouring chocolate the other night?   :lol:  We've done a lot of experimenting, haven't we!  I have a couple online friends who tried it and liked it, but after the first few days they never mentioned it again.   Those of us starting from 1200 calories don't have much wiggle room for a zigzag.  If I stayed hungry at my current level, or had cut my usual calories to the point of losing energy, I might be more eager to try it.  I do eat more now and then;  I just don't plan those days.  Zigzagging doesn't seem to fit with SLD:  if eating more raises setpoint, I wouldn't want to eat more on a day when I'm not hungry.  It could be SLD if the extra calories were flavorless, but I think I'll sit on the sidelines and watch. 

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