Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/aleche35/boards.sethroberts.net/Sources/Load.php(183) : runtime-created function on line 3

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/aleche35/boards.sethroberts.net/Sources/Load.php(183) : runtime-created function on line 3
Print Page - Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?

sethroberts.net forums

The Shangri-La Diet => General => Topic started by: heatherlyn on June 20, 2006, 09:57:48 AM

Title: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: heatherlyn on June 20, 2006, 09:57:48 AM
I first found this book when I was in the bookstore, seeking a book on combating psychological food addictions.
I picked SLD up instead, thinking "boy, if I don't have an appetite, then I won't crave food, right?"

Wrong.

I'm finding that my appetite is lessened, but it obviously doesn't do anything for my PSYCHOLOGICAL issues around food. (Not that it claims to- this is just MY self-experimentation coming to light).

I eat when I'm bored.
I eat when I'm reading.
I eat MOSTLY in social situations, where "hanging out" means "going to get lunch/dinner/dessert/coffee".
I was always taught to clear my plate.
PLUS, I'm used to eating 5 times a day or so, to keep my blood sugar steady, so I don't get migraines.

Now that I'm on SLD and have LESS appetite, I'm still struggling with all these previous "mental scripts". Like now, I'm sitting here at 9:55 AM, after taking my oil at 7:20 AM, and I'm not really hungry. By now, pre-SLD, I would have had a growly stomach and gone to get some breakfast food.

My brain, not my stomach, is now telling me "gosh, you should eat some food. You haven't had breakfast! eat something!!!!"

Has anyone else had this, and if so....how do you deal with it? 
Is this just a really good opportunity to re-train myself out of these psychological eating habits, since my body isn't going along with my brain at the moment?
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: frenata on June 20, 2006, 10:35:07 AM
How long have you been on SLD, and have you seen any weight loss despite continued eating? I would think if your appetite has decreased, you could eat that many times a day and still make progress because you're eating less in a sitting.

I wonder if you're getting the full effect; I couldn't possibly eat as much as I used to. I could eat more than I'm eating, but not by much.
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: porkypine on June 20, 2006, 10:37:47 AM
I am still working through issues like this, though maybe not as extreme. I really enjoy food as part of social events, even those as small as going out to dinner with my husband.

I would suggest, unless you are at work, now would be a good time to force yourself out the door and on a brief walk around the neighborhood. At least it will get you away from food and thinking about something else in your day. I think the best thing is to try to slowly change the habits you associate with food into habits you associate with something else. As Seth mentions in the book, maybe chewing gum or drinking water when you are reading.
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: heatherlyn on June 20, 2006, 10:38:46 AM
I've only been on SLD a few days- so not enough to really quantify yet.  I'm just sort of wondering about this as I come into it....

With my addiction to food, even when I'm full, and my body says stop, sometimes my mind says "eat more anyway". I have a hard time stopping when I feel full- my brain almost prefers me to feel ABSOLUTELY STUFFED.

It's really hard, I'm trying to figure out how to fix this.  I'm not morbidly obese or anything, I'm 5'8" and around 184, but my body feels best when I'm around 160....I go through periods where I binge more until I'm stuffed, and other times when I can just eat normally.....
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: heatherlyn on June 20, 2006, 10:39:56 AM
Porky- thank you for the suggestions. I was actually out for a quick walk right before I came back to the forums- it's a bit harder, since I"m on floor 28 of a building in san francisco, but...I took the elevator down and went around the block, at least!
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: splitbamboo on June 20, 2006, 10:42:50 AM
The other part of the diet is set point reduction. It will be interesting to see if your weight goes down even with your current "habits".
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: Hun.e.b on June 20, 2006, 10:44:04 AM
I'm an emotional eater too, especially when I'm bored.  Which is  my own fault its not as though i dont have anything to do to keep me busy.  But I will admit I'm addicted to food.  I think you just cant expect anything to magically take that away.  You've got to be conscious of it, find something else to do besides eating.  I still love food and probably always will but it cant rule your life.  Eat only what you LOVE.  Eat to live not the other way around.  I really dont think its magically going to go away, but if you try it can get better, at least with the hunger not being there it should be easier to just say no and do something else.  I hope anyway!

~melissa
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: Seth Roberts on June 20, 2006, 11:38:26 AM
heatherlyn, keep in mind that admonitions about food along the lines of "you must eat three meals/day" or "you must eat often to keep blood sugar steady" are unlikely to be true for most people. Our brains and bodies were shaped to work well under Stone Age conditions, when there was no steady predictable supply of food. I am going to blog about experiments that imply that skipping meals is good for you.
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: heatherlyn on June 20, 2006, 11:47:01 AM
Seth- thanks, I'll look forward to seeing that info.
I've always been sensitive with my blood sugar, I tend to get spikes and crashes, but that's probably a lot due to WHAT I'm eating, rather than how my body just IS.  When I was on Atkins, it was much easier to not get wild peaks and valleys in my energy level/hunger. 

The thing is, being prone to migraines, makes me SO wary of making changes, that I just tend to roll over and accept "ok, must eat frequently, or might get a migraine"..... I suppose I will have to go out on a limb and experiment with some RISK! 

(Ha, maybe if I do get a migraine, I can then experiment with the face-slapping/pinching thing that another poster mentioned in the "self-experimentation" thread on migraines.....)
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: falconcy on June 20, 2006, 02:41:40 PM
I found the first few days were harder to break from the routine. I wanted to eat even though I was not really hungry. I got through it by keeping occupied.

I'm gradually breaking the routine now, though it usually takes around 21 days to break a habit completely.

This is pretty amazing, I'm now eating around 1000 cals a day off the top of my head, must run it through FitDay to get a better picture (FitDay for the uninitiated is a website that offers free diet diaries, very handy for keeping track of just how much you did eat and breaking it down into a lot of detail with numerous statistics, www.fitday.com if you want to check it out)

I'm not weighing, but in measurements, I lost a couple of inches on the chest and an inch on the waist. Not bad for a week. I prefer measurements, it gives you much more feedback than weighing. Must take some foto's too, they can give a lot of visual feedback too.
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: barbinsky on June 20, 2006, 04:23:28 PM
Thanks for posting this, heatherlyn--great topic!!  As I've posted elsewhere, I also have issues with "non-physical hunger" eating.  I definitely have a voice that tells me it must be bad/weird/unadvisable to skip a meal!  Like you, I eat 5 times a day.  I'm very used to eating in the afternoon when I get tired. I think the food gives me something to do and gives me a little boost, both physically and mentally/emotionally.    I have not yet been able to go a whole afternoon without eating something---that would be a minor (ok, perhaps major) miracle for me.  And also I love eating socially, especially with my boyfriend (just as porkypine mentioned).  I think that for me to have success on SLD, I have 2 challenges: 1) find out how best to get the SLD method to work on my physical hunger, and 2) retrain myself not feel bad/scared about not eating 5 times a day.  It's a toughy... Look forward to reading Seth's blog on skipping meals and hearing more from all of you!
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: porkypine on June 21, 2006, 07:35:12 AM
Let me just echo that I am looking forward to the data on skipping meals. As I mentioned in my progress post, I am very envious of Seth's ability to skip meals completely for a day or two. I have a pretty standard routine every day, which is closely tied to my job, which I now realize is closely tied to food. My entire working life I have taken a lunch hour right around noon. Wouldn't everyone go nuts if they couldn't? I try to shop at Target or something to have something else to do during that time, but that doesn't always work. Now I bring my digital camera to work with me to see if I can find some interesting photos around town on my lunch hour, but I don't work in a very exciting place so there aren't many to be had.

If I could reinforce that skipping meals is okay by referring to scientific research, it would certainly help.
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: drouhard on June 21, 2006, 10:27:12 AM
What I have done for this is keep around some foods that are low calorie and good for you for those times that I'm either a little hungry or not hungry but just want to eat something.  Tomatoes or a boiled egg work well for me

tom
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: bigbaddar on June 21, 2006, 10:45:24 AM
Besides the boiled eggs, I use dried apricots, walnuts, or raisins.  These are the new "munchies" in my house.
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: Jim on June 21, 2006, 10:50:01 AM
Heatherlyn,
I guess that's a common problem. Allow me to recommend a book that I'm reading that is designed to turn off the drive to overeat. It is Top Notch and just may be something that will help. I think between that and SLD I may have found the holy grail. It's 'The 3-Day Solution Plan' by Laurel Mellin. With both books we have a fighting chance against this dreaded malady of overeating.
Jim
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: heatherlyn on June 21, 2006, 10:56:00 AM
Jim- can you tell me more about how a "3-day solution" can help my long-standing psychological issues about overeating?
I'm curious. Thanks!
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: Jim on June 21, 2006, 11:13:24 AM
Laurel Mellin is at the UCSF School of Medicine. Go to Amazon and you can get to see into the book with just a few mouse clicks. She also authored "The Solution', which I also have, but I find 3-Day easier to use. just my opinion so far. Let me know if you have any trouble finding the info on Amazon.com. Good luck!
Jim 
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: treefrog on June 21, 2006, 03:47:36 PM
I had the same experience. I am a stress eater. For the first few days I tried to resist, discipline myself, etc. That didn't work any better on the SLD than off of it. Now what I'm doing is when I want to snack, I let myself, but I only eat a bite or two. If I am out for dinner with the wife or friends I have just a bite of their dessert. If I'm at work and want a snack, I try to find something tiny. Yesterday I was craving a cookie at starbucks, and they had a sample plate with bite size cookie pieces and that was wonderful and enough. Sometimes I have to have a single bite of a candy bar and then throw it away. It was hard to do the first few times but it got easier (and now I feel a weird kind of accomplishment when I throw food away).

Because I'm not actually hungry, but want to food for other psychological reasons, this seems to work for me. So try that--snack all you want but just a bite at a time.
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: falconcy on June 22, 2006, 03:58:23 AM
On the candy bar side of things, I find the small bite sized bags are handy, I'm guessing you can get them in the States, we get Snickers bars like that. They are about two nibbles and gone. That will usually satisfy a craving and as long as you have the discipline not to do the whole bag, it should work.

Be warned though, the US candy bars, particularly Snickers, actually contain a hell of a lot more sugar than the European ones, so if you can fine European ones, they will have a lot less of a GI hike than the US ones.

Don't get fooled by the so called Energy bars etc. which are not really any healthier than a standard candy bar and are merely cashing in on the healthy eating craze, as well as costing a lot more money.
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: terry on June 23, 2006, 05:37:28 PM
I'm finding that my appetite is lessened, but it obviously doesn't do anything for my PSYCHOLOGICAL issues around food. (Not that it claims to- this is just MY self-experimentation coming to light).

I eat when I'm bored.
I eat when I'm reading.
I eat MOSTLY in social situations, where "hanging out" means "going to get lunch/dinner/dessert/coffee".
I was always taught to clear my plate.
PLUS, I'm used to eating 5 times a day or so, to keep my blood sugar steady, so I don't get migraines.

Now that I'm on SLD and have LESS appetite, I'm still struggling with all these previous "mental scripts". Like now, I'm sitting here at 9:55 AM, after taking my oil at 7:20 AM, and I'm not really hungry. By now, pre-SLD, I would have had a growly stomach and gone to get some breakfast food.

My brain, not my stomach, is now telling me "gosh, you should eat some food. You haven't had breakfast! eat something!!!!"

Has anyone else had this, and if so....how do you deal with it? 
Is this just a really good opportunity to re-train myself out of these psychological eating habits, since my body isn't going along with my brain at the moment?

Yes, Heatherlyn.  This is me, too.  I have had fleeting moments of what others talk about where the obsession with food is completely gone and I'm almost repulsed by the thought of eating anything more after a few bites.  Those few moments are the only thing that's kept me going these 5 weeks or so.  Because of those moments, I believe in the method and I stay on it hoping that I'm that one that 'gets it' continuously after 7, 9, 12 weeks.  I'm hangin' in but, I would love... HELP!

My progress is posted under Terry's Progress in the Progress/Updates boards if anyone has suggestions or help.

Thanks, Terry
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: barbinsky on June 24, 2006, 05:04:10 PM
Quoting:
Heatherlyn,
I guess that's a common problem. Allow me to recommend a book that I'm reading that is designed to turn off the drive to overeat. It is Top Notch and just may be something that will help. I think between that and SLD I may have found the holy grail. It's 'The 3-Day Solution Plan' by Laurel Mellin. With both books we have a fighting chance against this dreaded malady of overeating.
Jim

Hey Jim and all, just to let you know that I started reading the Laurel Mellin book and so far it seems like her approach is really compatible with Seth's.  She focuses on the psychological aspect of appetite, whereas he focuses on the physical aspect.  Thanks for the recommendation!  I think that the 2 approaches together may be a powerful one for me as a person who struggles with emotional eating! 
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: Miller on June 24, 2006, 07:16:44 PM
Quoting:
Heatherlyn,
I guess that's a common problem. Allow me to recommend a book that I'm reading that is designed to turn off the drive to overeat. It is Top Notch and just may be something that will help. I think between that and SLD I may have found the holy grail. It's 'The 3-Day Solution Plan' by Laurel Mellin. With both books we have a fighting chance against this dreaded malady of overeating.
Jim

Hey Jim and all, just to let you know that I started reading the Laurel Mellin book and so far it seems like her approach is really compatible with Seth's.  She focuses on the psychological aspect of appetite, whereas he focuses on the physical aspect.  Thanks for the recommendation!  I think that the 2 approaches together may be a powerful one for me as a person who struggles with emotional eating! 

I wouldn't say that Seth's approach is physical only.  I think it's at least part psychological, though not at the conscious level.
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: Jim on June 25, 2006, 12:18:07 AM
Hello All,
First to Terry. I've been on SLD since the 1st of June. For the first 3 weeks, nothing, no appetite suppression, just will power. Then through some posts and some help I upped my intake of oil from 2 tbl spoons a day to 4 and that is what did it for me. Since June 22 I now feel like all those posts that you read about and hope to achieve. AMAZING when you find your set point. Starting Thursday it all came together for me. Since then I don't feel hungry in the morning, for lunch have a couple of pieces of fresh fruit, for dinner I steam some vegtables and a piece of good wheat bread and that's it for the day. It's just unbelievable. Not hardly eating anything and don't feel like it either. NO CRAVINGS either. And, I'm a psycholocal and emotional eater too. It just seems to take care of everything. WOW!!
So, make sure you are taking enough oil or sugar and find your set point. Just be aware of the subtle, but sure feelings and ask yourself the question, am I hungry, and the answer for me is amazingly no. Keep trying it's there, I had the same feelings, this doesn't seem to be working for, me until I found the set point. My, my, this is life changing stuff!

The Solution is a great book and together with SLD, Dynamite!

Have fun all!

Jim
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: Stephen M (Ethesis) on June 25, 2006, 07:47:16 PM
I've only been on SLD a few days- so not enough to really quantify yet.  I'm just sort of wondering about this as I come into it....

With my addiction to food, even when I'm full, and my body says stop, sometimes my mind says "eat more anyway". I have a hard time stopping when I feel full- my brain almost prefers me to feel ABSOLUTELY STUFFED.

It's really hard, I'm trying to figure out how to fix this.  I'm not morbidly obese or anything, I'm 5'8" and around 184, but my body feels best when I'm around 160....I go through periods where I binge more until I'm stuffed, and other times when I can just eat normally.....

I'd suggest you visit http://www.oa.org/

Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: terry on June 26, 2006, 01:33:09 PM
Jim, Thanks for the encouragement.  I'm still going forward as I've had those moments of feeling disinterested in food which is sheer bliss.  I just wish it would stay.  I am upping my intake (again) and keeping it that way for a week or two to see if that helps.  If not, I'll try going beyond 400 calories daily until I get it.  I'm determined to figure this out.

Stephen, I know you were making the OA suggestion to Heatherlyn but, I've been in OA for about 10 years and still feel frustrated with food issues every day.  It's nice to  sit in rooms with others and hear their stories of food obsession which makes me feel less alone in my struggle but, it hasn't worked to remove my obssession with food.  In fact, OA members would think I was nuts for trying another, "Fad diet craze."  You and I both know SLD is NOT a fad or a diet and I certainly don't think Seth or any of us SLDers are crazy.  If the SLD method can work for really food obsessed people like me, it will work for just about anyone.  Maybe I'm going to take longer to find my sweet spot with flavorless calories but, I know it's there, somewhere.  I've experienced it.  I just need to find a way to keep it.

Thanks to all who have posted with suggestions and help.  You guys rock!
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: Stephen M (Ethesis) on June 28, 2006, 05:46:22 AM
Jim, Thanks for the encouragement.  I'm still going forward as I've had those moments of feeling disinterested in food which is sheer bliss.  I just wish it would stay.  I am upping my intake (again) and keeping it that way for a week or two to see if that helps.  If not, I'll try going beyond 400 calories daily until I get it.  I'm determined to figure this out.

Stephen, I know you were making the OA suggestion to Heatherlyn but, I've been in OA for about 10 years and still feel frustrated with food issues every day.  It's nice to  sit in rooms with others and hear their stories of food obsession which makes me feel less alone in my struggle but, it hasn't worked to remove my obssession with food.  In fact, OA members would think I was nuts for trying another, "Fad diet craze."  You and I both know SLD is NOT a fad or a diet and I certainly don't think Seth or any of us SLDers are crazy.  If the SLD method can work for really food obsessed people like me, it will work for just about anyone.  Maybe I'm going to take longer to find my sweet spot with flavorless calories but, I know it's there, somewhere.  I've experienced it.  I just need to find a way to keep it.

Thanks to all who have posted with suggestions and help.  You guys rock!

Yeah, I'm still stretching my mind for ways to share Shangri-la as a food plan.  It sure seems a lot less intense than the OA-HOW people.

I'm lucky, I've got a Saturday morning men's only group that is really good.  About 10-11 of us make it every week.

But the diet seems to work, though it leaves me needing to find another way to deal with things other than food.  I've had a number of positive personality changes, and worked through a lot of issues.  I'm at a quasi-plateau (losing .5 pounds a week or so only), but it is good for my mind in adjusting.

But I find my oa group has helped me make the emotional adjustments I needed, and has been a place where I can talk (we have several guys who have lost more than a hundred pounds and reached new stable weights).

Wish you well.

Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: Jim on June 28, 2006, 06:48:34 AM
Stephan,
Have you looked into the Laurell Mellin book that I mentioned in this thread? I highly recommend it. It very well may help you. Cheers!
Jim
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: Stephen M (Ethesis) on June 28, 2006, 10:32:03 AM
Stephan,
Have you looked into the Laurell Mellin book that I mentioned in this thread? I highly recommend it. It very well may help you. Cheers!
Jim

Since starting Shangri-la I don't have emotional issues with eating, I end up with just the emotional issues, all related to grief work from burying three children and from having a six and a half year old in the house, headed towards being seven and the age Jessica was when she died (I had similar spikes when she hit Robin's age and Courtney's age).  A fearsomely bright and happy six and a half year old who I love dearly.

If I still had emotional connections with food I'd look the book up.
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: xt92879 on June 28, 2006, 11:43:35 AM
Now I bring my digital camera to work with me to see if I can find some interesting photos around town on my lunch hour, but I don't work in a very exciting place so there aren't many to be had.

I do this same thing! I just got a new camera, so part of it for me is just wanting to play with my new toy... but I live far from my family, so they're always excited to see where I work, etc. et.

I guess I'm lucky. My office is in the same building as my gym. If I get really antsy, I can always go walk on the treadmill for a bit (but try not to sweat!)
Title: Re: Appetite lessened, but psychological food addiction remains?
Post by: falconcy on June 28, 2006, 12:13:42 PM
Today was a particularly busy day, I ate very little, though I managed to get some sugar water in.

When the time came to eat, I had to practically force myself to eat something, I knew I needed to eat, but didn't feel that hungry.

I find being in control quite satisfying, and I'm starting to get out of the habit of eating meals at a particular time. My routine now is mostly governed by fitting the food in the slots between the sugar water.

I often find myself snacking as opposed to actually eating.

I know that I have to be careful, the other night I made a spicy beef dish and had rice with it, I know I ate too much, it was as much as I used to eat and I felt really bloated. Next time, I'm either gonna skip the rice or make a lot less of it.